From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 21 Aug 92 10:19:26 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq Sounds like Eris has you by the short hairs! Well, hang in there, and remember that if it don't work, don't use it. BTW, I have been asked if you got the communication from Ranger Rick? He says call him, and if you need the number ask me in private e-mail. So much for the world! Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 21 Aug 92 10:22:24 Subject: A question for discussio Rec'd UpdReq Time is completely subjective. That is what I was getting at. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 21 Aug 92 10:23:48 Subject: Third nipple Rec'd UpdReq AL> 40Ds.....(smerk!) Lil CN> CN> So don't wear a bra, right??? ];-) I do worship AZO, the bullshit god, so all I can say is MOOOO! I do from time to time not wear a bra, but it can be a drag! Loved the horns! LIl 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Lewis Cypher 21 Aug 92 10:30:04 Subject: RE: A question for discussio UpdReq Like in electic wireing, the closer you are to the source of your power, the less is bled off through the lines. the step removed, (gods and the like) just gets you closer to what is. Solipsism, where you are the Universe, and you create all that is around you. It is still all you, therefore you have the controll to change it the way you desire. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 21 Aug 92 10:32:50 Subject: Moderator UpdReq Preaching? NOT! It is a waste of time on most magickians who have their heads up their bottoms searching fot the "Truth". I get a bit soured on most of the folk out there. I can play their games, but Why? Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Barak Area: Night Side To: All 21 Aug 92 13:53:08 Subject: Mezlim UpdReq Mezlim is a publication for people with more than a passing interest in the occult. Each issue provides over 50 pages of articles, reviews, letters, rituals, recipes, interviews and editorial comment on issues of interest to people worki ng in Wicca, Magick, Ceremony, Initiation, Goddess worship, Pantheism, Ritual, Shamanism, Liminal States, Self-Transfor mation, Alternative Earth-Based religions and related fields. Mezlim is attractively and professionally produced, with color cover on glossy recycled stock. Currently our cover price is $6. As our circulation increases, we hope to be able to pass our savings in production co sts onto our readers in the form of a reduction of this cover price. Since we don't want to have the price change more than once, we need to have some idea of where to put it. This is where we need your help. If you could take a moment to answer the following questions, it would be much appreciated. 1) If you saw it on the newsstand for the first time, at what price would you be willing to purchase the magazine? 2) If you were already familiar with it, and knew that you wanted it, what price would you be comfortable with? 3) If you could purchase an annual subscription, what kind of savings would you expect off the newsstand price? 4) Are you already familiar with Mezlim? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 21 Aug 92 12:07:00 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq AL>Sounds like Eris has you by the short hairs! Well, hang in >there, and remember that if it don't work, don't use it. The main problem is that I can feel that somewhere above this area of "nothing is true", there's something else waiting to come through. But how to I invoke it when I can't know its nature, and it may not -- probably doesn't -- have a nature that fits with the symbols and systems I know? Seems like all I can do is just sit and wait, and hope it doesn't get bored and go somewhere else... >BTW, I have been asked if you got the communication from >Ranger Rick? He says call him, and if you need the number >ask me in private e-mail. So much for the world! > Lil Yes, I have the number, and I'll call him if I remember. Sagittarian laziness in its most virulent form -- I never remember anything when I have time to do it! * SLMR 2.1a * Five tons of wax! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Turbator 21 Aug 92 23:01:00 Subject: OTO UpdReq > If by "they" you mean Kali Lodge, we're currently celebrating the > release of the New Orleans Voodoo Tarot, preparing for the opening of > the Voudon doors at the exibition of the original art,(created by Sallie > Ann Glassman) at Native Naive Gallery here in N.O.. > We're also exploring Enochian Voodoo,(our own special blend), > Pathworkings,the Gnostic Mass, Amerindian shamanism, Traditional Voudon > ritual, Geurilla Art, Magick as a tool for political activism, and a > plethora of other activities. How much is the Kali Lodge's newsletter? I've seen listing for it (and have electronic copies of some of it) but I haven't seen a price. Wassail, Grendel the Eclectic Asatru 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 21 Aug 92 20:52:12 Subject: Moderator Rec'd UpdReq FA> And I was heavy handed?! Markie! I'm hurt! :( No No! I didn't say that! I just said that Nick was not heavy handed. Didn't mean to leave you out! Sorry....shall I kiss it and make it better? ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Allyson 21 Aug 92 20:55:12 Subject: Wiccans vs. Ceremonialists UpdReq A> By the way, the Wiccan Charge of the Goddess says A> something about this: "All A> acts of love and pleasure are my rituals." And if A> you're doing something that isn't an act of love A> and/or pleasure, then you shouldn't be doing it ^^^^^^^^^ That's my only objection to Wiccanism, too much ethics. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Gerald Del Campo 21 Aug 92 20:59:22 Subject: Ritual tools UpdReq GDC> Why Charles, you are starting to sound like a Chaos kinda guy ;) Must be the bad crowd he hangs out with. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 21 Aug 92 23:48:26 Subject: Moderator UpdReq It's okay..... *sniff*...... I know when I'm... *snuffle*.... not wanted. *sob* ;) Heheheheh. But nobody.... _NOBODY_... has ever gotten rid of me THAT easily before! ;) No problem. ;) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 22 Aug 92 08:36:10 Subject: Third nipple Sent UpdReq AL> 40Ds.....(smerk!) Lil CN> CN> So don't wear a bra, right??? ];-) AL> I do worship AZO, the bullshit god, so all I can AL> say is MOOOO! I do from time to time not wear a AL> bra, but it can be a drag! Loved the horns! Well, then, EVERBODY's happy. After all, 40D's are a community treasure not to be (too well) hidden, right? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: All 22 Aug 92 09:02:36 Subject: Cult Info Censorship Sent UpdReq It seems that I can no longer enter or reply to messages on the Cult Info echo run by Wiccan Rowan Moonstone out of Colorado Springs. It may be that this is purely a fluke on BaphoNet, and I intend to ask Sysop Tony Iannotti for an explanation. If it is other than a fluke, then I will have a series of WIDELY distributed comments to make on censorship in general and Cult Info in particular. Forewarned is forearmed. ]:-( 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 22 Aug 92 09:31:22 Subject: A question for discussio Sent UpdReq Mythologizing is *one* function of the symbol set. The symbol set, however,does not necessarily derive (entirely, anyway) from mythos. A large portion of it is derived from real life and masked in mythos. One example, on the purely physical level, should give you some idea: take the circle. The circle can have two meanings: closure and continuance. The mythological form "magick circle" reflects the former, the myth of the serpent biting it's tail reflects the latter. Both have a biological basis, however, and that is the reason we see analogs from culture to culture. The biological basis lies in visual perception; a circle, perceived from the center, is space radiated outwards and suddenly constricted (contained). Hence the function of "closing the circle", ie, separating a space. A circle, perceived from the rim, draws the visual attention around and around; hence the cyclic concept, the circle or wheel of life. Neither squares nor triangles adequately express this, having definite points which cause the visual attention to act differently. All symbols, therefore, have two components: a purely physiological function which suggests directions of meaning and the associations drawn out by the cultural history/individual understanding of the shape's meaning. This doesn't mean that there is a "language of shape", not in the sense we understand language anyway. There is a language of perception which uses shape, but a shape's meaning in isolation does not help in determining the meaning of conjunctive shapes. It's tricky to say, so I'll just illustrate: The alchemical shape for the sun (circle w/ centered dot) is radically different from the circle or the dot. The centered dot tends to keep visual attention on the center, giving the illusion that the circle is larger than it really is (if you don't believe me, draw two same-size circles and place a dot in one's center, then look again). The apparent largeness subliminally suggests a largesse, a flowing outward, hence it's use for the sun (which also depends on what is meant by "sun", but I think you understand what I mean). So symbolism is not a purely subjective function; there is a language of perception, of space, involved. How much of it is an outgrowth of physiology I won't guess... right now. As to the more subjective side, the mandalic mesh of associations we build on the physical function, it depends. If we both agree that the purpose of the mythicons is to induce a particular emotivational state (a directed mood) than it might well be possible to strip out the mythic aspects in the course of developing an "intuitional physics" . I think this is already happening to a certain extent -- MTV is rearing a whole generation on the stylistics of image and time, ie, learning how to induce moods using the emotional frames of images and time. The best of these open up spaces that really haven't been explored by the majority, by and large, Metallica's "Enter Sandman", for instance. Or the slow-fade strobes of En Vogue's "You're Never Gonna Get It"[title?] These two items point to the *possibility* of symbolic use without mythos, but not symbolic use without emotion. But it's going to be hard going for a while. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 22 Aug 92 10:08:38 Subject: Re: Chaos and learning magick Sent UpdReq No, I mean "inner voices" we all have... "You're not gonna do that", "Yes I am", "You can't do that, they'll laugh at you", etc. That's the most common form. A less common form is "Hmm, suppose I do this, what happens?", "While, The Square Law says that...", etc. Ie, verbalizing thoughts internally. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Lewis Cypher 22 Aug 92 10:17:58 Subject: RE: A question for discussio Sent UpdReq Amazon's got a bit different approach than I do; 'specially as I'm still in the midst of developing it and haven't gotten past the second stage yet...... You're right that the intellect can't "summon", it's function is really as guide, I think. But right now, I'm concerned with developing the mythos-free techniques and it'll be a bit before I get it to a level of effectiveness in ritual. So, check out my message to Josh Norton (a few msg.'s before this) if you're curious. You may wind up thinking of something I missed, or not... whatever. 93! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rex Irae Area: Night Side To: Markie Chao 22 Aug 92 02:09:38 Subject: where were we? UpdReq Markie - Would like to pick up where we last left off in the discussion of beginning training in the dark arts. My mail was disrupted a few weeks ago, and I am only now getting myself re-established in old threads. So if you'd like to try to refresh me on what has gone down, I'd be more than happy to continue... _ _ /