From: Shadow Mage Area: Night Side To: Turbator 16 Aug 92 17:20:00 Subject: Test UpdReq TT> Yes, yes, we are receiving you; but, will we be able to TT>relate with you? Yeah, well, thats the catch really innit? BTW, with your proliferation of 93's I presume your an OTOite, can I ask what they are doing at the moment? or would that be too presumptuios a question :) Shadow. -><- ` 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 07:54:06 Subject: AZO Rec'd UpdReq JC> NYC -- apologize, I recalled after the message JC> that it was not so uncommon; JC> I'd be surprised though if it were a fully JC> developed third mammary gland... That's OK, I think of it as my little witch mark... I could have been killed for it in the dark ages.... Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 07:55:52 Subject: Dark, dark and dusty.... Rec'd UpdReq As the song says...when the levey breaks.... Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 07:57:44 Subject: A question for discussio Rec'd UpdReq JC> There was a discussion on another echo about how JC> it theoretically ought to be possible to use JC> forces in pure terms, but the rituals (for JC> others) seemed to still work best when using a JC> mythicon (god-construct which holds specific JC> energies -- Ishtar, Tammuz, Ariadne, Thoth, JC> etc.). Think we can get past that? I think some Sure you can get past that...but be ready for the dissapointment when you realise all the glamor is gone from the Universe...As you pare it down and get to the core of how things work, the question of why surfaces even more...There is the point where you must source the Universe in yourself... Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 08:03:10 Subject: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsRec'd UpdReq Thanks for letting me in on it a bit..I would have guessed most of the stuff. As for me, I have been exposed to CM nearly all my life, (Mum started into the pursuits when I was about 9, and I was along for the ride.) So, I have been doing more "Magick" in my 30 years than most, and on a level where it is my life, not just a part of it. I am Thelemic by tradition, Chaotic by Nature, and an Artist by design,(Pun!). I have been raising my daughter in the same light, with a more spiritual emphasis than I had. In the last 12 years, my husband and I have been a constant in the Cincinnati area's Pagan community. Our clan is expanding and gathering both the learned and the novice. Cincinnati used to have a Scorpionic reputation...things are changing in that. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 08:11:18 Subject: Magick Rec'd UpdReq Magick is causing change to occure in accordance with Will...the process by which the change takes place is up to the individual. Bottom line is WHAT EVER WORKS. I find a lot of the mental stuff gets in the way of the work getting done. That is me, and I don't expect my path to work for anyone else, 'specialy if you need to know how and why. Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 17 Aug 92 14:01:02 Subject: A question for discussio UpdReq AL>Well, female names or not, I think she is still a bit >off... I personally don't feel comfortable with Maatian stuff, but that's more a personality problem than anything to do with the content. She and I have views of the universe that are at right angles to each other, so they only intersect in a small area. And of course, I'm too busy developing my own theory of the "aeons" to pay much attention to hers. AL>For a new age a new system...The synergy of what came >before...like making the whole more than just the sum of >the parts. Lil I'm convinced that it is possible to take a real jump above the level that current and past magick systems are at... Sort of analogous to the way Relativity theory and QM explain everything that Newtonian physics did, and open up whole new ways of looking at the world as well. A meta-magickal schema, so to speak. But I don't think synergizing elements of existent systems is going to be enough to do it. From the evidence so far, that approach generally ends up just putting new labels on the same old stuff, without really breaking out of the mindsets on which the stuff was based. It's going to take a real "lightning flash" of insight on someone's part to get there. * SLMR 2.1a * Kirk, Spock, & McCoy are a cardinal t-square. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 12:31:04 Subject: A question for discussio Rec'd UpdReq JC> Yeah, I understand, butt I meant "atheist" magick, >actually. My experience has been that we are so steeped in >xtian and animythic lore that it becomes >difficult to take magick on its own terms (ie, science to witchcraft's >religion, or CMs for that matter). There was a discussion >on another echo about how it theoretically ought to be >possible to use forces in pure terms, but the rituals (for >others) seemed to still work best when using a mythicon >(god-construct which holds specific energies -- Ishtar, >Tammuz, Ariadne, Thoth, >etc.). Think we can get past that? I think some of my >experiments are beginning to show me a way... Considering how human minds work, it may not be possible to get an entirely myth-free system working. But what constitutes a "myth"? When one thinks of and refers to "Mars" as a force associated with the movements of a planet, rather than as a Roman god, is one still using a "mythic" system? Or has the word become simply a convenient abstract label for a perceived "force"? At what point does the symbol-set cease to be mythic? * SLMR 2.1a * I left my heart in Chichen Itza. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Jonathon Blake 16 Aug 92 22:59:00 Subject: Necrocomnicon? UpdReq > were you the one who started that thread on the X-MEN as > gods/archetypes for today? No, Neuro Sonic didn't. My user, Ian Kesser, made a comment on using the X-Men to represent spheres on the Tree of Life. It was taken out of context by a bunch of people. No one suggested using them for gods. -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phule Area: Night Side To: The Moonshadow 14 Aug 92 20:08:00 Subject: Re: Ragnarok Lumberjacksc UpdReq In a message to Phule <08-05-92 08:05> The Moonshadow wrote: TM> |PP> I agree. Though we are working on more subtle mindfucks. TM> who wants to be subtle? dontcha like the oliver stone approach? He does pull off some REAL trippy films, GREAT stuff! But subtlety may also prove useful... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Grendel 15 Aug 92 12:10:00 Subject: Re: Neuro Nauts UpdReq Gr> Oops!! Sorry about that. I got you confused with the Penis that Gr> Walks Like A Man (aka Tony Lane). I promise to behave... How DID they put ears on that Dick, anyway. Inquiring minds want to know! BTW, did you get my mesage about the bad-blood between Asatru/ToS folk? If yes, why no response? Just curious. If you find that sort of exchange distasteful, simply let me know. I thought you could disperse some of my confusion regarding this event. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Shadow Mage 15 Aug 92 12:14:00 Subject: Test UpdReq SM> > Bong, preferably. I like pipes, meself! Joints burn my moustache....it is an advertisment I'd rather do without! Bongs get nasty, unless you clean them regularly...and I'm too lazy for that! SM> Ah, it's good to see a healthy herbal interest still infects SM> the Denizens of this area.. Must be something in SM> the air..|) I KNEW I'd smelled that incense before. Its the same exotic, oriential fragrance that the Beatles got off on! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 15 Aug 92 12:30:00 Subject: Re: Temple of the Dog Rec'd UpdReq FA> Ahhh. Thanks. Now all I need are Lollapolooza tickets and I'll be FA> all set! :) Pax. 93 The -=SinMeister=- (august sysop of the exaulted Purgatory...the only Black Light in this maggot ridden buckle-of-the-Bible-Belt) told me of several "Shock Stages" at their concerts of late. One involved a guy eating maggot-ridden human shit and one of the other interesting ones was two guys; one who drank a beer thru his nose with a straw who subsequently puked it into a large glass....his friend then gleefully drank it down with a smile. Oh, if I only could have neen there! Nothing like bread and circuses! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 15 Aug 92 12:33:00 Subject: Re: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq AL> Big men are a challange...we all want to see if they are as big on AL> the inside as they are on the outside...(I could be crude here..but AL> you have met me, and there is no need!) Lil Well! I'm over 6'4'' and pushing 200 lbs.....would that do? And you know what Cowboy Curtis said to the now defunct Peewee Herman show? "Well, Peewee; you know what they say. Big boots, Biggggggg.........FEET!" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 15 Aug 92 12:35:00 Subject: AZO UpdReq AL> Just where do you live? i do have three...it is not so uncommon...My AL> brother and I share the same bithmark..and third nipple. When I was AL> nursing, it had milk too. Slightly uncomfortable...it got blocked AL> often. I wouldn't mind showing you..;-) Lil Can I see? You have me making plans to "toss-off" after I "log-off"...hehe 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frc Area: Night Side To: Vitriol 15 Aug 92 12:42:00 Subject: Re: BATE CABAL INFO UpdReq We at Purgatory ahve a great Enochian program for Enochian! Tablets (all of them high-rez VGA) with gematria searches, etc. Let me know if you want a copy and I'll give you access to the area that has it! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Jonathan Corwin 17 Aug 92 18:34:16 Subject: Re: Nox Theoria, In Defense of the Black ArtsRec'd UpdReq I'm printing out every word...;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Chen Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 18 Aug 92 01:03:22 Subject: Feeding Loas Rec'd UpdReq C'est ca! The night before my wedding we had a ritual to feed the family Loa and honor the ancestors. My entire family freaked and pointed out that it might not be such a hot idea to call my Mother up (mommy dearest...). I had to explain to them that infact she would not come walking down the street, martini in hand, to menace us with coat-hangers. By the day of the ritual, my brother was cooking up her favorite spaghetti sauce, and my sister had dried her favorite wild flowers and brought them with her from Maine. My sister-in-law brpught a cutting from a plant she had that was my mother's twenty years ago... in short, it wasamazingly moving to just do somthing nice for the person who had given us life. After the wedding we took all the offerings to the graveyard and everyone said goodby to my parents again. Everyone felt that they had truly attended the wedding. Well, you get the idea, eh? Contrary to what the movies portray, Voodoo is lovely and sacred, and has the power to show us the great and mysterious soul-content in our experience. Bye now. LOVE/WILL 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Almost Area: Night Side To: Chen 18 Aug 92 01:51:08 Subject: Feeding Loas UpdReq Gee. That sounds so wonderful........ It may sound horrid but, now, I can't wait for my folks to die....... Well, I do get the stuff and the money so all of that becomes my disky side. Seriously, no offence to the dead parents thingy (I'm hjaving home troubles yet again, etc.), but this does intrigue me. Very interesting. ALso, I assume that yer siblings have no interest in Voodoo but are quite fond of you...... <>..... Well, I gotta run now. Thanks for the input. Ta! ;) Pax. 93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 18 Aug 92 10:40:54 Subject: A question for discussio Sent UpdReq JC> mythicon (god-construct which holds specific JC> energies -- Ishtar, Tammuz, Ariadne, Thoth, JC> etc.). Think we can get past that? I think some AL> Sure you can get past that...but be ready for the AL> dissapointment [sic] when you realise all the glamor is gone AL> from the Universe...As you pare it down and get to the Actually, I find quite the opposite happening... I find it to be of a greater wealth than the animythic material. I think it has to do with paradigms of understanding. I've adopted a Chaosview... and not from magickal, but scientific inspiration. I could get into it, but I prefer not to, at this point. Let's just say that my beliefs both allow for a quite complex *natural* cosmology (-ogony) and, at the same time, put to rest the boogie man which haunted me for six or seven years -- "There's nothing new under the sun". Personally, I never bought that crap (although I have used that paradigm to simplify things on occasion)... but it's a pretty powerful argument to defeat if you don't know how. AL> core of how things work, the question of why surfaces Again, my experience is the opposite -- the question "why" disappears and its more practical cousins "what" and "how" take its place. My wise has pretty much answered itself as any wise will do ... AL> even more...There is the point where you must source AL> the Universe in yourself... Lil Ah! Zut! Vous etes vrai, et alors? The key word here, I think, is 'Universe', NOT 'Earth'. Even using the Universe as the grounding point, I notice most people I've seen are still in Earth-bound conceptions. If you are centered in the universe, however, a whole different type of cosmology, one I referred to as the 'alien gnosis' unfolds. I'm not anywhere near there yet, but I have been blessed [Arrrh! I need another word! ] with a few glimpses of it; so the theory of Nox_Theoria is informed by experience, as well, although much of it is not... yet. Most interesting experience I've ever had, one not yet duplicable, was the sudden grasp of 360-degree inward vision on a metal sphere. Not bad for 22, hey? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 18 Aug 92 11:05:02 Subject: A question for discussio Sent UpdReq Yeah, I agree... [about the sad lack of really new material] Oh well, 90 percent of humanity takes the low curve... whad'ya expect? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathan Corwin Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 18 Aug 92 14:08:16 Subject: A question for discussio Sent UpdReq JC> > [we are so steeped in] xtian and animythic lore that it becomes >difficult to take magick on its own terms (ie, science to witchcraft's >religion, or CMs for that matter). There was a discussion >on another echo about how it theoretically ought to be >possible to use forces in pure terms, but the rituals (for >others) seemed to still work best when using a mythicon JN> Considering how human minds work, it may not be possible to get an JN> entirely myth-free system working... Better start watching those linguistic tar-babies, Br'er Rabbit, 'stead of leaving 'em out for Markie . If you re-read the text, I make no reference to "myth-free", just corporeal god-forms (including ol' JeHoVaH himself; oops, wasn't supposed to pronounce his sacred name, was I? ;> ). Even science has it's myths, but I consider them to be less retrogressive. The difficulty in working with forces rather than through mythicons is apparently due to their differing viscosities, heh. It's less easy to channel through diffuse "forces" than through concrete abstractions like Ishtar, Tammuz, Raphael, Gabriel, etc. Personally, I suspect it's because the wrong approach is being used. Wouldn't use unleaded Exxon to blast off from Canaveral, would you? JN> But what constitutes a "myth"? When JN> one thinks of and refers to "Mars" as a force associated with the JN> movements of a planet, rather than as a Roman god, is one still using a That's astrology. I'm not so sure I would use that particular configuration. I have a good idea of what *I* have in mind, but I'll have to think more about it to offer you an appropriate answer. The particular arena you chose is kind of tricky. Myth: "A purely fictitious narrative usually involving some supernatural persons, actions or events, and embodying some popular idea concerning natural or historical phenomena." [OED Compact, 1971; I know, out of date...] I'm not entirely happy with that definition, but I'll let it stand for now; Hence Mars the god is not a myth, but a mythic figure. Some may say "his existence is a myth" because that expresses an action: existing. "Mars is a Roman God", however, is a fact (or was; is the Roman god now God? :D ). JN> "mythic" system? Or has the word become simply a convenient abstract JN> label for a perceived "force"? Like I said, I'll get back to you on that one... JN> At what point does the symbol-set cease JN> to be mythic? Don't confuse the mythologizing function with the symbol-set; it's a non-sequitur. The two may be related, but not necessarily in an essential way. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Chen Area: Night Side To: Frater Almost 18 Aug 92 17:29:46 Subject: Feeding Loas Rec'd UpdReq FA> ALso, I FA> assume that yer siblings have no interest in Voodoo but FA> are quite fond of you...... < every action I do is a ritual and that it is the FA> most powerful form of magick ever conceived of by FA> man. Pax. 93 Precisely! And one doesn't have to do circle castings, etc. or use ritual tools (except as a focus aid and to make one feel good about pseudo-control of surroundings and pseudo-ownership of items).... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 18 Aug 92 21:14:34 Subject: Third nipple Sent UpdReq JC> developed third mammary gland... AL> That's OK, I think of it as my little witch AL> mark... I could have been killed for it in the AL> dark ages.... Lil So exactly where IS your third nipple? Inquiring (perverted) minds want to know.... };-) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718