From: Brynioch Area: Night Side To: Whomever 4 Aug 92 23:13:00 Subject: Finding a system. UpdReq Recently I've been posting some queries about CM and the various orders, I realize that there must be dozens of them out there (Perhaps more?), and that finding one that co-incides with my ideas could possibly take a very long time. So perhaps I can throw out some of my thoughts and perceptions and get some idea of what group/order/author/whatever may be in line with my thinking. The first books on the Occult that I recall reading were 'The Satanic Bible', 'The Neconomicon', and 'The Satanic Rituals'. That was when I was a young teenager. Later I read a few other books like 'Magick in Theory and Practice' and 'Gems of the Equinox' (The hardcover one). The references in Crowley's books and the Necronomicon we're a bit too...deep for me, I couldn't understand half what was going on in the books... I also couldn't get an idea or feel for the Caballah. I later turned toward Wiccan oriented books and was involved with a coven for a while, I really didn't seem to click with them, there didn't seem to be any kick in the rituals... I don't know whether this was my own lack of commitment, trying, or what it was. I believe in re-incarnation, I believe in different planes of existence, I believe in spirits and other such entities who may be floating around us that we (The general public) are not aware of. I have no direct experience of any of this, it just what seems ...right to me. I also seem to prefer rituals with more..direction, purpose. Rituals that are more...precise (?). I'd like to explore other states of consciousness... Go to these interesting places that are spoken of in some of Crowley's works. To make things happen with magick. Does this help any of you out at all towards a suggestion for a group/author? I'm open to any or all questions that may help in making this determination. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 5 Aug 92 08:05:14 Subject: Re: BATE CABAL INFO UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Serpens on 08-01-92 12:51 <=- -=> Re: BATE CABAL INFO <=- JN> It was pretty effective. Curiously, years later I got to the same JN> place during a group invocation of the Seniors of the Earth Tablet, JN> without any reference in the ceremony to the music or the Mountain King JN> symbolism. Which reminds me -- would you happen to have a copy of the Book of the Seniors on disk? I'll be glad to pay p&h, and with the usual agreement to upload it to my BBSes, etc. I want to thank you again for the previous disk. It's causing some new synapses to go wild in some part of my dextro-hemispherical lobe! * BWave/QWK v0.96 * Black holes were created when God divided by zero. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 6 Aug 92 09:00:34 Subject: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq JN> (i.e. golf pros, successful entrepreneurs, etc.) attribute all their JN> success to the intervention of Jesus Christ. JN> Sounds like since the stick JN> didn't work, they're trying the carrot. As said many times before...It is quite the scam. A psychological terrorism of sorts. I love to go up to these people and harass them with their own bullshit. Sometimes though I just can't be bothered. 'Sides, my God has a bigger dick than theirs! Hail AZO! Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Amazon Lil Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 6 Aug 92 09:05:10 Subject: Political Bullshit UpdReq I heard this morning that G.B.'s popularity has dropped to an all-time low! Well, I am glad to know that the change is in the offing. I did a little bit of sympathetic magick yesterday....I cut down the Bushes in the front of my house...I think it just might do the trick! Lil 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 6 Aug 92 10:38:00 Subject: Dark, dark and dusty.... UpdReq >As said many times before...It is quite the scam. A psychological terrorism >of sorts. I love to go up to these people and harass them >with their own bullshit. Sometimes though I just can't be >bothered. 'Sides, my God has a bigger dick than theirs! >Hail AZO! Heh. Give them a bit of their own, eh? I think there must be a course in fundy seminaries called "Pedestrian Harassing 101". Just scream "God is a GIRL and her name is ERIS!" and walk away. * SLMR 2.1a * Facts? Don't bother me with facts! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Shadowcloud Area: Night Side To: Grendel 7 Aug 92 00:50:00 Subject: Neuro Nauts UpdReq -=> In a magickal message to Frater Q.A.A., Grendel said <=- Gr> The old moderator of Cyber Mage was a real jerk and a bunch of us Gr> dropped the echo. If someone is going to revive it for the Neuro style Gr> stuff, I'll pick it up again. What do you think? Are you that Gr> interested? Is there enough overall interest? I'm moderating the conference now, though there hasn't been any traffic on it for months. Doesn't seem that many people are very interested in posting on it. I'm working on some conference guidelines so we can avoid another Tony Lane incident... B*B Glenn ... There are times when it's a source of personal pride to not be human. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Area: Night Side To: Frc 5 Aug 92 23:02:00 Subject: Fear UpdReq > Now he has me wanting to do it. Fear is an incredible rush! Just remember Grendel's Law #1: Pain Hurts! This is beyond some individuals but is readily apparant if your chute fails to open. Have fun. I think Hang Gliding is more fun though. =) -= Grendel =- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 6 Aug 92 19:25:08 Subject: Re: Enochian Lexicon UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JN> Be sure and check the names against the Tablets carefully. I recall JN> finding a couple of sigils in James' book that didn't match the names JN> as given. Never got around to doing anything more about it, though. Yeah, Turner mentions a discrepency between Dee's manuscript (Liber Scientia....) and the combined table of characters. I'm willing to hypothesize that Dee simply never got around to rectifying his Liber with the T.R.. I shall, in any case, determine the Governors' names from the Sigils, and not vice versa. JN> Hmm. Hadn't heard that. I usually use the T.R. because the G.D. system JN> of multiple letters in some squares seems like sheer idiocy. And it JN> does work well enough. The G.D. hodpodge always bothered me, too. It may be possible to sort out the different layers of alteration, using the Dee diaries, but I think that probably little of Magickal worth might be so gained. Yet more opportunities for unrestrained pedantry! JN> I can't help much with ways of doing it with C/C++. I mostly do JN> Windows programming these days, and for that environment C/C++ is too JN> low-level for efficient debugging and maintenance. Since I'm a one-man JN> shop these days, I have to keep my customers happy by getting jobs done JN> FAST, which means Smalltalk or Visual Basic is the language of choice. JN> And -- as I'm sure you know -- if you stop using C for a few months, JN> you forget most of it. Hehe. Yeah. I've been doing C for about 10 years, and sometimes the finer points still slip away. I'm a relative novice at C++, after only about 3 years. I've played with SmallTalk for Windows, but somehow never got around to anything serious. I like the object oriented approach to things, though, which can be applied in just about any language, once you get the mind set. JN> REAL problems don't develop until you start working on ways to JN> determine the G.D.'s elemental attributes for the squares. No doubt about that. It's taken me a couple of days to get all the simple extraction rules expressed as tables of x/y offsets on the Air Tablet; the necessary offsets into the other Tablets are in another table. This information is embedded in a more complex structure which allows attributes to be specified either on a character-by-character or word-by-word basis, which ought to accomodate the additional G.D. material. All it does for the time being is permit descriptive labels for the extracted names. I'll post the source code on Mumbo Jumbo Kathedral when it's sort of soup, pre-graphicization. The actual code which processes the arrays of pointers to structures containing pointers to arrays of structures etc. is _very_ simple. The data definitions do nearly all the work. I'm not completely happy with taking an entire Tablet as the smallest granularity, but it seemed to simplify things a bit. JN> At last! I've been wishing for someone to publish Logaeth for a long JN> time. Don't know how useful it will be in practice -- those I know JN> who've actually seen the Logaeth stuff say it's not on the same level JN> as the later Enochian work. No doubt about that; it's only page after page of character tables. But, and a haunting but it is, the Spirits Dee dealt with gave him to believe that it contained all the knowledge and power that a man might ever need. Love is the law, love under will. ... Nothing is a secret key of this Law 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Shadowcloud Area: Night Side To: Grendel 7 Aug 92 18:25:02 Subject: Neuro Nauts UpdReq -=> In a magickal message to Shadowcloud, Grendel said <=- > And, I know.. I'm a *baad* moderator... But I *can* get it from D.S., so > I *can* try to revive it again.... Gr> Why bother? I remember you as moderator if you are the same person Gr> who was running it before it was shut down. You were/are a complete Gr> ass. I will pick up a Neuronaut orientated echo for my BBS but not if Gr> you are moderator. Woof... Grendel... I see that this echo posts with my nom de plume.. ShadowCloud. My name (at least the one you know me by) is Glenn Sieb... Tony Iannotti gave me the Cyber_Mage echo after Tiny Lane closed it down... (Please don't jump to conclusions like that... I almost flamed you in response, dearling...) B*B Glenn ... Hard to say, Grendel. I think my cerebellum just fused. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Arthur Rosene Area: Night Side To: Charles Nemo 7 Aug 92 11:41:48 Subject: Current 93 Rec'd UpdReq 93! Hi. Was wondering if you happened to have Current 93 Live at Bar Maldoror? It is rather hard to find in Houston. If so, would you mind dubbing it for me if I mailed you a tape? thanks.. Arthur Rosene 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Chen 7 Aug 92 18:08:02 Subject: Politics and Society UpdReq C> Say- did you get my original message- #437? C> Otherwise this makes VERY little sence. I'm used to C> the post office losing my mail, but I'm new to all C> this... Since the numbers change constantly and I'm not on every day anymore, I don't know which message you mean. What are we talking about? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Turbator 7 Aug 92 18:10:18 Subject: Politics and society UpdReq T> There were 23,000 lutherans in N'awlins this past T> weekend, Nchsh and I had great fun freakin' them T> out. Only in fun, I'm not into converting them, but T> shaking 'em up; and giving 'em a little free T> adrenaline is good for the soul! Always fun to torture the ignorant. ;) I get in moods once in a while when the door to door types come around and give them a lesson in basic white paganism. They're trying sooo hard to be polite and to understand...you can just see them shaking their heads on it for days. T> Just what do you mean by crash, and would you enlighten me? As in crashing a party. I know this person (awright, Nachash and all you guys over at baphonet quit laughing because you know who I mean) who likes to play games. He signs on xtiam boards and gets into the flow, then starts bringing up `uncomfortable' subjects. He's been thrown off more boards..... T> Is good idea, how about C. Jung and W. Reich? Probably good too...guess I oughts read these guys first hand one of these days myself. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 7 Aug 92 18:34:30 Subject: The battery powered God AZO UpdReq AL> the need for my god to be closer to me....and AL> cuddle up once in a while... Lil My daughter and I came a cross a non-battery consort for AZO at a local amusement park last year AZA of course. The goddess was introduced to the holy keepers of AZO (well, one of them) last xmas. She's pretty cute too. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Amazon Lil 7 Aug 92 18:36:36 Subject: AZO UpdReq AL> I find that some magickians are using the "Dark AL> Side" like some christians use the concept of hell. AL> It is used as a method of keeping children in AL> line, or keeping others under your controll. Fear AL> of the abyss, as a personal hell, keeps many from AL> ataining their goals. The mystique of the unknown, AL> keeps that fear going. I remeber that! Wicca 1A from the ex-xtian wiccans that get their facts from science fiction. I met a lot of those around 12-13 years ago. Would have put me off the occult if I hadn't had so much previous `experience' to deal with. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Barak 7 Aug 92 18:40:44 Subject: Mezlim UpdReq Got mine today! First time I've been first. :) Ok, I'll wrap up the next one and get it sent. Seeing my name in print always gives me a good kick in the rear. I guess Lola didn't get hers in, huh? Last I heard she was `in love' and didn't have time for much else. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 7 Aug 92 18:43:12 Subject: Re: Book Recommendations. UpdReq B> I'd appreciate a posting on the histories of any B> CM orders... As for Crowley, I an understand why he B> might have wanted to be obscure. Makes the B> prospective student work harder and trying to B> understand what the hell he was talking about. Ok, I'll check with the house librarian and see what we have around, there may even be some files on the nets to look into. As for Crowley, I read him unprepared long ago and would agree with you in my own case, but not for everyone. I've always been an avid reader and good student, and one could argue that this should be a requirement for someone getting into this stuff in the first place, but I think starting everyone out on something that challenging could put off some people who may have a lot to gain from more basic reading. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Brynioch 7 Aug 92 18:48:16 Subject: Re: Book Recommendation for Newbies. UpdReq B> Just thinking on this, am I in the appropriate B> echo? It seems that Night-Side (Chaos) magick is B> something for the more practiced and learned B> magician, are my questions about beginner CM books B> germaine to this echo? It's hard to think of anything short of xtian preaching being inappropriate for Night Side echo, but I do have to point out that it isn't specifically a chaos magick echo. Chaos is one of several areas that may be classified as Night Side. Chaos is best suited to someone well grounded in magic in general, but questions about beginner books shouldn't be inappropriate because if a Wiccan wanted to branch out into CM, where else would he/she go? There are a variety of people who frequent this echo with a variety of ideas and suggestions based on our own experiences, gather opinions and make your own way. B> Could someone explain what Chaos magick really is? Have you read the file on this that I wrote? it's a general introduction which serves the purpose of keeping me from repeating myself. B> Does the Chaos Magician tap into or use primal B> forces? Or is it something more? Yes and yes. You have the basic idea, tapping into primal forces. Something more always exists because Chaos uses whatever works from any system. Chaos is understanding the basic nature of magic rather than attaching to a system of belief or ritual. Free belief is something Spare wrote about...freeing yourself from all beliefs which only limit you so that all things are possible. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: -D.L. 7 Aug 92 18:57:10 Subject: Necrocomnicon? UpdReq The base works. ;) As for the Necronimicon, I've stayed out of that discussion because I've only read the paperback which has warnings all through the first 1/3 of the book about how dangerous it is. I still chuckle... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Josh Norton 7 Aug 92 19:00:54 Subject: Coffin cars UpdReq Well, I tried. ;) I guess it's a 5' 10" size car...but at least my feet can move around! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Frc 7 Aug 92 19:04:00 Subject: Re: New Tunes UpdReq CN> So is "Thunder Perfect Mind" Current 93's latest? F> I was given that as a gift when I was in Dallas a few months ago. F> Want a copy? I do! I do! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: Night Side To: Frc 7 Aug 92 19:05:24 Subject: Re: Geezer City, USA UpdReq F> Well, you have two years on me. Had 8 years on my last husband... F> Does this mean you WON'T wear my St. Christopher medal? That depends...would it mean we were going steady? ;) And how come Eris the cat never kept a seat warm for ME?! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Arthur Rosene 7 Aug 92 20:03:40 Subject: Current 93 Sent UpdReq Yeah, I have it on CD and will be glad to dub it and send it to you. No charge. You can leave your address in the private area here on BaphoNet, or there may be a private area on the new Mumbo Jumbo Kathetdral (not sure about the latter). 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718