From: Tim Maroney Area: Night Side To: Bobby Meizer 7 May 92 13:16:44 Subject: RE: Re: Crowley and Wiccans UpdReq Gardner did misrepresent the origins of his rituals and instructions; knowing that he had written them hmself and borrowed heavily from ceremonial magick sources, he claimed that they had been given to him by an ancient tradition which had initiated him as a witch. But he at least did not have the hateful attitude towards Crowley and his other ceremonial magick sources that is so evident in his followers, such as Doreen Valiente: Gardner actually makes positive references to AC and Masonry in _Witchcraft_Today_, for instance. Whether this qualifies him as a plagiarist is an open question. My teacher always says, "It's not plagiarism if you steal from more than one source!" He was plainly a liar. So are most people of high degree in the O.T.O., as far as I can tell, so perhaps this should be considered one of Gardner's Thelemic borrowings.... Timbo 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718