From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: Diane Vera 20 Apr 92 20:48:00 Subject: THE BLACK FLAME Rec'd UpdReq I noted your comments in a recent message. Certainly the current issue has many more editorial statements about the CoS's historical validity and rights to prevent others from using their name than previous issues. Reasonable minds might differ about the pro- or anti-Nazi orientations of a number of groups and persons, since study of Nazi occultism is sometimes viewed as sympathy which may or may not be present at the same time. Nevertheless, I find the reviews section of The Black Flame to be a most useful lead to new information. I would buy the 'zine for that alone, regardless of my views on other contents. Similarly, I have noted the tremendous intellectual content of the ToS materials which I have seen. Unfortunately, most items are not available to non-Setians, but even the reading list (which is posted on many occult BBS * Origin: Tower of BABALON Lansing, Michigan (517) 487-9393 (1:159/700) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tim Maroney Area: Night Side To: The Sinistar 24 Apr 92 08:24:16 Subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: freethinkers don't censorUpdReq If more people would stand up to authoritarians, the power of authoritarians would be weakened. Contrariwise, if you accept their orders, then you are propping up their authority. The defense of "just following orders" was invalidated at a place called Nuremburg, in case you hadn't heard yet. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: All 25 Apr 92 19:14:46 Subject: "Out of Darkness" Sent UpdReq Another collection of essays on alleged Satanic ritual abuse has just emerged. Edited by Sakheim and Devine and priced at $24.95, "Out of Darkness" is published by Lexington Books (an imprint of Macmillan, Inc.), 866 Third Avenue, NY, NY 10022. It is not friendly to darksiders overall and makes a number of egregious errors, but its theme is careful scientific exploration of the subject. FBI agent Kenneth Lanning's sceptical chapter entitled "A Law Enforcement Perspective on Allegations of Ritual Abuse" provides much-needed balance as he has done in other recent publications. Recommended. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Charles Nemo Area: Night Side To: All 25 Apr 92 19:32:04 Subject: "Murder" Sent UpdReq There's a new must-have item for all you fans of serial crimes. "Murder" is a double 7-inch record package on blood-red vinyl. It features conversations by four serial murderers (one per side): Bianchi, Bundy, Kemper and Lucas. It's available for about $11.00 from Silent Records in San Francisco. Your local dealer should be able to get it for you. Definitely a collector's item! On a similar note, Crimebeat Magazine is a better-than-average new 'zine. The fifth or sixth issue is now on better newsstands everywhere. All back issues except the third (which featured the Night Prowler) are also available.... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: Night Side To: Bobby Meizer 24 Apr 92 06:17:54 Subject: RE: Re: freethinkers don't censor UpdReq On 21 Apr 92 10:43:42, Bobby Meizer posted a message to Grendel concerning "RE: Re: freethinkers don't censor"... BM> In a message to Tim Maroney written on Monday, April 20, 1992 at BM> 17:58:17, Grendel writes: Gre> Easy words for someone who doesn't run his own system. I'm sorry, Gre> Timmy, but when the sysops, such as myself, put as much time and money Gre> as we do into our systems, they stay OURS. That means, we can kick Gre> someone off for any reason we see fit. I have yet to have to do so but Gre> I am prepared for it if I have to. This is not a free medium. It costs Gre> money and the sysops are the ones who are paying for it and, therefor, Gre> control access. When everyone can hook up a personal Gre> node for free, then we won't have this problem. BM> I'll take my ball and go home. Hardly a mature, courageous, or BM> progressive attitude. No one has disputed your RIGHT to behave in this BM> way, but then others have the RIGHT to call this childish, cowardly, BM> regressive behavior the censorship which it is. It takes maturity, courageousness, and a progressive attitude to stick to your guns when the "politically correct" deride your values. Yes, you have the RIGHT to call Grendel's position what you do, but your opinion is wrong. If Grendel (and the rest of us) were for kicking someone off the BBS because his *opinions* differed from ours, then you and Tim would have a legitimate concern. Since our complaint isn't the opinion, but rather the language, the form of presentation, your concern is misdirected. Moving the analogies from publishing and BBS systems to a different venue, if someone stands on a soap box in the park and rants and raves concerning whatever, that's OK. If while ranting and raving he also slings dung onto his audience and also on those who just happen to be passing by, that is intolerable. The latter person needs to be taught some manners. Balanone PP ... Anger is that feeling that makes the mouth work faster than the mind. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718