From: Amethyst Area: Mundane To: Aladrisa 1 Nov 94 09:36:20 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq A> Basically I am pointing out that the info is out there, A> you just have to ask. A> Yeah, I know that in some cases it is hard to find..but A> you could always ask a A> question and not "let them touch you" until you got the A> answer. They told me A> about birth control for afterwards, how to take care of A> myself after etc etc. A> The younger you are the more they go out of their way to A> make sure that YOU A> know what is happening to you and what you are doing so A> that you dont freak A> out 10 years down the line and die of guilt for making a bad choice. I had no idea that there was any chance of that. There were no clinics then...this was May of 1981, before Morgantoler started up in this country. The only place I knew of to go was BirthRight and they sure as hell weren't going to counsel me on abortion except to frighten me out of it and I was frightened enough already. I was in a strained relationship with the father, I had just lost my grandmother who I was very close to and I was still in denial about that. Before I even knew the results of the test, my mother was telling me what I was going to do, and despite the fact that she had given me up 3 years before this, I was terrified of going against her. The only info I could find in the library was on second trimester terminations and it scared the hell out of me. I told my mother I wasn't going through with it and she went ballistic telling me that she would never speak to me again if I had the baby. As much of a bitch as she was, I still needed her in my life at that time, especially just after losing my grandmother. I was sent to this doctor by my mother and he wouldn't answer any of my questions. I didn't even get the "don't you worry your pretty little head" routine....it was "you're going to have an abortion young lady and that's that, and never mind all that, it doesn't matter....and after this I never want to see you back here again to have another abortion! And never mind about the side effects of the pill....the only one I know of is that you may gain a little weight, but you're still going on it, whether you like it or not!" All this guy cared about was making his money! At that time, I had never learned to take control of my life. Everyone had made the decisions for me and if I tried to go against them, they did everything they could to make me utterly miserable. I was always under someone's control, whether it was my mother, another relative, the CCAS or the staff of the group homes I was in. There was always a consequence if I tried to take control of my life. If I ran away from the group homes, I had to hide from the police because I knew they had been notified that I was a runaway. I couldn't even run to my grandmother's place when I was beaten up in my second placement at the age of 14. The staff had watched while this other girl punched me out and they did nothing! I hadn't even done anything to piss her off! I just walked into my room less than an hour after I had arrived there and was greeted by a fist! When she had finished beating me up, I started running down the street and they told me *I'd* be in trouble with the cops if I didn't come back. Up until then, I was basically a prisoner in my mother's apartment. I was only allowed to go to school and no where else. I wasn't allowed to have friends over and the only time I got out of the apartment was when my mother wasn't home, and then I would just go to the creek in Thomas E. Seton (cont'd) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Amethyst Area: Mundane To: Aladrisa 1 Nov 94 10:05:04 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq (cont'd from last message) Park behind the building. I had no friends and my only view of the "real" world was TV where I was treated to "Little House on the Prairie" and "The Brady Bunch." All I knew was that being an only child with a single mother who spent almost no time with me was damn strange in the 70's. I was the scapegoat who got beaten up on the way home from school and I never knew why. When something traumatic happened to me, I turned inside...there was nowhere else to go. I talked to myself and that creek more than anyone else, because no one else cared to listen to what I had to say, least of all my mother who would always tell me to shut up as soon as I opened my mouth! I had never been encouraged to have an opinion, much less a choice, when I was 17. Everyone else did my thinking for me, and the few times I dared to rebel the consequences mostly involved humiliation of some form. Like the time I had a sexual relationship with a boy in a foster home in the Owen Sound area. My mother had insisted that they cut me off from contact with my grandmother because she was fighting with her about my being sent away, so I had to sneak around and phone her collect from school all the time. Then the foster parents found out about the relationship and all hell broke loose! The people were furious because CCAS wasn't getting me out of their home fast enough, so to take their frustration out on me they made me sleep in their room on the floor and if I made any noise in my sleep they would wake me up and start screaming at me. I was kept from school and forced to take on everyone else's chores, while the boy involved could do no wrong. My family were all informed that I was a worthless slut whenever they called to speak to me, and my mother accepted that and told me so whenever she talked to me. An aunt called to tell me how surprised she was in my abhorent behaviour and my grandmother didn't call at all. There was no one I could talk to who would ever be on my side or understand how I felt...I was offered no counselling whatsoever. I was made to feel horribly ashamed of what *I'd* done as if no one else was involved! I had made a decision to be loved by someone...anyone...and that's what I got for it! And when they finally did get me out of that home, I wasn't allowed to contact the boy ever again, my reputation as a slut preceeded me into every placement, and it was made public knowledge in front of strangers when I appeared in family court a month later, influencing the disgusted judge's decision about my wardship. I was made to feel that every decision I made for myself was wrong and got me into trouble that was worse than my worst nightmares! It was so much easier to just let everyone else control me and make up my mind for me...I stayed out of trouble that way. The first time I had to make a real decision for myself was the night of my 18th birthday when the CCAS kicked me out into the street with no where to go. It was February and I had to decide whether I was going to sleep on the street and die of exposure or get arrested or find a place to go. I ended up in a women's shelter. It was a real insult to avoid getting a criminal record and all form of drug and alcohol addiction all those years just to end up on the street anyway. All my life, I'd let others take care of me and I started my adulthood homeless! That was the first time I doubted whether it had been worthwhile to let others make all the decisions for me. No one else had ever given a damn about how I felt, and all of a sudden, I didn't either. Maybe that doctor wasn't totally responsible for my promiscuity, but he did contribute to what led to it. He was just another bastard among many (cont'd) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Amethyst Area: Mundane To: Aladrisa 1 Nov 94 10:38:20 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq (cont'd from last message) who never gave a damn about how Colleen Graham felt, or what happened to her. It wasn't until I got pregnant with Erinn that I started caring. Maybe my motivation for wanting to have her was wrong to begin with, but I doubt I'd still be here today if I hadn't made that decision. I was at a turning point. I either got my life together or destroyed it completely...if I had had another abortion, I probably would have been so distraught, I would have taken my own life. I changed my name a year ago because I wanted to finally disassociate myself from all the pain that name had wrapped up in it. I had been taking charge of my life for more than 11 years and I wanted to finally claim one part of me that I'd had no choice in at all...my name. I can't change who my mother was, but now I prefer to think of the Goddess as my mother rather than the woman who gave birth to me and treated me like dirt. A> I did not become more promiscuos. I became more careful A> because I knew that I A> had terminated a human life and that it was perhaps the MOST difficult A> decision a teen can make. But in your case, it was YOUR decision and for that reason you took responsibility for it. Never having been encouraged to make a decision, I was never encouraged to take responsibility for what happened to me then. You were obviously far more mature at 17 than I was. At that time in my life I felt like I was just everyone's puppet. "Do this, Colleen....do that Colleen....or else!" That had been my whole life at that age, and the "or else" had so far proven horrid enough to keep me in line with everyone else's wishes. A> As for the doctor making you sick, don't forget that he is being paid to A> do the surgery. He is not being paid to do the counselling A> unless you went to a A> clinic, then they have the counsellors there to do it. All he is under the A> impression of is that here is this lady, she has been A> told about whats going A> on, she has made her decision and he is doing the job. It sounds cold, but A> doctors are cold. Like I said, there were no clinics and I had no access to counselling. All that cost money in Ontario in those days and I didn't even know what my O.H.I.P. number was, or if I even had coverage after I had taken off from a placement to live with my boyfriend while I was still a ward. And doctors aren't all cold, and there's really no reason why they should be. My family doctor runs 2 busy "no appointments" clinics in Regina and he has hundreds of patients and he genuinely cares about every damn one of them! If one of his patients is mistreated by a specialist, the specialist hears about it! There's no excuse for any doctor to become cold and impersonal...that's their choice. If they decide to lose all sense of the idealism that made them choose their profession because of the money involved, then they should get out of medicine. Human beings should be treated like human beings, especially by doctors who are looking at the most private part of a woman's anatomy. And if they choose to become doctors because of the money involved then (cont'd) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Amethyst Area: Mundane To: Aladrisa 1 Nov 94 11:33:30 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq (cont'd from last message) they have made a bad choice for all of their patients, and it will eventually show in their apathy towards them, which will lose them patients (and money) in the end. We are far better informed consumers today and we know better than to settle for apathy and mistreament from the medical profession. Forgive me for being blunt outside of the Goddess echo, but if a man is going to shove his hand up that end of me, he'd better damn well care about who I am and how I feel about it at the other end, regardless of his credentials...his credentials don't mean a damn thing to me when I'm flat on my back with my legs spread for the sake of my health and well-being! I will not, as I once did, get that personal with anyone who thinks of me as a few quick bucks or a hunk of emotionless, meaningless, meat! Granted, it took me a long time to finally gain some sense of self worth, but now that I have it, no one will ever get the chance to take it away from me! If I learned anything at all from all those years of being treated like sh*t by everyone I trusted, it's that I deserve better! I took it for far too long from far too many people! BB -=Amethyst=- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Aladrisa Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 3 Nov 94 14:43:54 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq A> I had no idea that there was any chance of that. There were no clinics A> then...this was May of 1981, before Morgantoler started up in this country. A> The only place I knew of to go was BirthRight and they sure as hell weren't A> going to counsel me on abortion except to frighten me out of it and I was A> frightened enough already. I was in a strained relationship with the father A> I had just lost my grandmother who I was very close to and I was still in A> denial about that. Before I even knew the results of the test, my mother wa A> telling me what I was going to do, and despite the fact that she had given m A> up 3 years before this, I was terrified of going against her. The only info A> could find in the library was on second trimester terminations and it scared A> the hell out of me. I told my mother I wasn't going through with it and she A> went ballistic telling me that she would never speak to me again if I had th A> baby. As much of a bitch as she was, I still needed her in my life at that A> time, especially just after losing my grandmother. Well mine was 1979, way before.... My mom did the same thing :-( in fact she never even told my dad and they were divorced. She claims he would have told me to keep it. A> I was sent to this doctor by my mother and he wouldn't answer any of my A> questions. I didn't even get the "don't you worry your pretty little head" A> routine....it was "you're going to have an abortion young lady and that's A> that, and never mind all that, it doesn't matter....and after this I never A> want to see you back here again to have another abortion! And never mind A> about the side effects of the pill....the only one I know of is that you may A> gain a little weight, but you're still going on it, whether you like it or A> not!" All this guy cared about was making his money! At that time, I had A> never learned to take control of my life. Everyone had made the decisions f A> me and if I tried to go against them, they did everything they could to make A> me utterly miserable. I was always under someone's control, whether it was A> mother, another relative, the CCAS or the staff of the group homes I was in. A> There was always a consequence if I tried to take control of my life. If I A> ran away from the group homes, I had to hide from the police because I knew A> they had been notified that I was a runaway. I couldn't even run to my A> grandmother's place when I was beaten up in my second placement at the age o A> 14. The staff had watched while this other girl punched me out and they did A> nothing! I hadn't even done anything to piss her off! I just walked into m A> room less than an hour after I had arrived there and was greeted by a fist! A> When she had finished beating me up, I started running down the street and A> they told me *I'd* be in trouble with the cops if I didn't come back. A> Boy, we have a lot in common....did you have your own wanted poster too :-) A> Up until then, I was basically a prisoner in my mother's apartment. I was A> only allowed to go to school and no where else. I wasn't allowed to have A> friends over and the only time I got out of the apartment was when my mother A> wasn't home, and then I would just go to the creek in Thomas E. Seton (cont' A> I didnt live at home. I was on my own then and I was really lucky. I can imagine what she would have done to me too. al 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Aladrisa Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 3 Nov 94 16:52:50 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq A> (cont'd from last message) A> It wasn't until I got pregnant with Erinn that I started caring. Maybe my A> motivation for wanting to have her was wrong to begin with, but I doubt I'd A> still be here today if I hadn't made that decision. I was at a turning A> point. I either got my life together or destroyed it completely...if I had A> had another abortion, I probably would have been so distraught, I would have A> taken my own life. Thats good yet it is (or could have been) somewhat fatal too. Think about it for a sec...what if.....as I was ssaying before you cant make an uninformed choice. You just proved it. A> I changed my name a year ago because I wanted to finally disassociate myself A> from all the pain that name had wrapped up in it. I had been taking charge A> my life for more than 11 years and I wanted to finally claim one part of me A> that I'd had no choice in at all...my name. I can't change who my mother wa A> but now I prefer to think of the Goddess as my mother rather than the woman A> who gave birth to me and treated me like dirt. I changed mine this year, but not for the same reasons as you. You can never run from your past. You can only deal with your mistakes and feelings, learn to deal with the anger, and then let it go, and cleanse yourself. You probably will never forget, yet you will forgive yourself. I dropped the name to disassociate myself from the family I never really had. The pain is still there BUT now I start out on my very own to make my own name in this world.Nope, I wont forget the dirt, or the so called "mother" figure but I have been lucky to learn the fire can transmute, so I have taken the anger, transmuted it into poetry and art and music, learned to deal with most of it and now I guess it is time for me to move along. Oh yeah there are a few shards, but they will develope into something else as time goes on. The naming gave me a whole new perspective on myself and others and I am quite pleased with who *I* am but just yet found out. I am myself no matter what my name may be. A> But in your case, it was YOUR decision and for that reason you took A> responsibility for it. Never having been encouraged to make a decision, I w A> never encouraged to take responsibility for what happened to me then. You A> were obviously far more mature at 17 than I was. At that time in my life I A> felt like I was just everyone's puppet. "Do this, Colleen....do that A> Colleen....or else!" That had been my whole life at that age, and the "or A> else" had so far proven horrid enough to keep me in line with everyone else' A> wishes. No I was very immature. And they never encouraged me, they more or less sed, "Whatever you want to do...." while there backs were probably turned, plotting to take it away from me if I had of gone thru with the birth. I was everyones puppet too. But there was this little tiny voice inside my head that keot telling me "you are almost an adult and now is the time to make choices". All of my friends thought I was nuts to have an abortion and you would never believe how very hard it was to hold up my head and choose for ME and not them. WHen some one threatened me, I told them to Fnark Off. WHat did we have to loose Am? We were alone from day one. Would it matter if people tried to have control? No. Our lives would have still been the shits. A> Like I said, there were no clinics and I had no access to counselling. All A> that cost money in Ontario in those days and I didn't even know what my A> O.H.I.P. number was, or if I even had coverage after I had taken off from a A> placement to live with my boyfriend while I was still a ward. A> I was in the hospital. Not a clinic. A> And doctors aren't all cold, and there's really no reason why they should be A> My family doctor runs 2 busy "no appointments" clinics in Regina and he has A> hundreds of patients and he genuinely cares about every damn one of them! I A> one of his patients is mistreated by a specialist, the specialist hears abou A> it! There's no excuse for any doctor to become cold and impersonal...that's A> their choice. If they decide to lose all sense of the idealism that made th A> choose their profession because of the money involved, then they should get A> out of medicine. Human beings should be treated like human beings, especial A> by doctors who are looking at the most private part of a woman's anatomy. A A> if they choose to become doctors because of the money involved then (cont'd) Yeah but like I sed, this is the 90's now :-) al 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Aladrisa Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 3 Nov 94 16:55:00 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq A> (cont'd from last message) A> Forgive me for being blunt outside of the Goddess echo, but if a man is goin A> to shove his hand up that end of me, he'd better damn well care about who I A> and how I feel about it at the other end, regardless of his credentials...hi A> credentials don't mean a damn thing to me when I'm flat on my back with my A> legs spread for the sake of my health and well-being! I will not, as I once A> did, get that personal with anyone who thinks of me as a few quick bucks or A> hunk of emotionless, meaningless, meat! If only we could have thought that way when we were kids :-) A> Granted, it took me a long time to finally gain some sense of self worth, bu A> now that I have it, no one will ever get the chance to take it away from me! A> If I learned anything at all from all those years of being treated like sh*t A> by everyone I trusted, it's that I deserve better! I took it for far too lo A> from far too many people! A> But have you ever wondered why? I mean, I have sat and wondered why for so many years.....questions like "What have I learned from this?" etc etc. There was a lesson to be learned from the whole thing....a hrad one, but even still... bb al 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718