From: Jess Buckley Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 21 Oct 94 23:27:52 Subject: Re: Anouncement UpdReq -=> Quoting Amethyst to Shadow Weaver <=- Am> Giving my daughters information is my top priority. It's something my Am> mother didn't care enough to do. Good on you. Maybe if our generation teaches the next about contraception and sensible behaviour, there'll be more of it in the future. I remember being in my aunt's house, asking her did she have a sanitary napkin (I had gotten my period at her house) and she went ballistic shusshing me, cause my 11 year old cousin didn't know about menstruation yet. I mean, when was she going to be told, after she started and thought she was dying or some other dumb idea like that? I never could understand why we leave kids so ignorant. Thank goodness my trad does growing up rituals with kids of both genders. One simply cannot trust the school systems to get it right, and a lot of parents are just too nervous. Having community rituals, helps. Anyone out there want to share coming of age rituals? ... "Hail to She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed-But-Is-Too-Nice-To-Insist-On-It!" 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Jess Buckley Area: Mundane To: Amethyst 23 Oct 94 11:57:22 Subject: Re: Abortion stuff in Metaphysical UpdReq -=> Quoting Amethyst to Paul Seymour <=- Am> I'm sorry, Paul, but I just don't agree with the Am> pro-choice/pro-abortion stance represented here and I have a hard time Am> dealing with the fact that Wiccans have decided to represent either Am> side of the issue. Am> I had an abortion when I was 17, and in my opinion it was the biggest Am> mistake I ever made in my life. Granted a lot of things that have Am> happened in my life since would never have happened if I had carried Am> the pregnancy to term, but nothing ever hurt me more or had a more Am> lasting negative effect on my mental health. I agree with you that abortion is a rotten thing for anyone to have to choose or go through, but sometimes it really is a person's only choice. I personally could never do it myself, but I agree with Paul when he says the best defence is to make abortion unnecessary, and to fully counsel all women on their choices. Such a vast majority of abortions should never have been necessary, many times because the woman had no access to birth control or because like you, she was not given her freedom to choose in a protected environment. We need to support every woman, particularly those who choose to bear their children. This is one thing that I like about Wiccans and Witches, we have a community lifestyle that encourages standing by each other. One of the biggest problems I have with the Pro-Choice movement, is that they are NOT HONEST. Even if an abortion is the only choice a woman feels she has, she needs counselling and support. This is the hardest decision ever made, even when MADE WELL it has, as you pointed out lasting psychological effects. When made WRONGLY it can destroy people's lives forever. Such a vast number of women do not make this decision well. They do not have a full set of facts before them, and this is what I believe must be changed. Neither side of the debate in the public sector has behaved very well on this matter, although, I feel the anti-abortion side has gone way too far in many venues. The pro-choice side hasn't done very well either, they always seem to try to downplay the fact that this is an irreversible choice with a lifelong effect. I literally get more counselling if I want to have a tooth pulled, than my friend got when she had her abortion. I know that both sides of this debate think that any legislation that doesn't promote their views is wrong, but we need to start thinking of this as the major surgery it is, and at least hold doctors to the same standards of disclosure they are held to when they do other surgery. And it does need to be legislated that there must be some sort of protection to ensure that the woman is not being pressured and is making her own choice. The education of our daughters and sons, starts with us, we cannot expect others to do it for us, that's another thing I like about our worldview, we consider body function to be a natural thing and by and large our children are better educated about these subjects. I do agree with you that as a group, Wiccans should probably stay out of the fight, there are too many different views amongst us for us to say that Wiccans believe thus and such. This is a decision that has to be made one person at a time. Blessed Be! Bluerose 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: RAINLAKE Area: Mundane To: SILVERWING 23 Oct 94 01:41:00 Subject: Quote: UpdReq -> Re: Quote: -> -> > "Feminism ... encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their -> > children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbi -> > - Pat Robertson Well, I *am* a socialist Witch. I suppose two out of five ain't bad. -> May the blessings of Luuna shine upon you, now and always. Pardon an ignorant question, but is Luuna the same as Luna, and if so, is there a story behind the alternate spelling? (Us old lit-and-linguistics majors never get over being curious about such stuff.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Silverwing Area: Mundane To: RAINLAKE 26 Oct 94 12:39:42 Subject: Quote: UpdReq In regards to: Quote:... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-={ You Stated... }=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -> Re: Quote: -> -> > "Feminism ... encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their -> > children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbi -> > - Pat Robertson Well, I *am* a socialist Witch. I suppose two out of five ain't bad. -> May the blessings of Luuna shine upon you, now and always. Pardon an ignorant question, but is Luuna the same as Luna, and if so, is there a story behind the alternate spelling? (Us old lit-and-linguistics majors never get over being curious about such stuff.) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-={ My Reply... }=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Luuna is the name that was burned into my mind during one of my meditations a while back that equates with the feminine aspects (all of them) of the Divine (or at least to me). I know that doesn't do much to explain this, but there really aren't any words that would do it justice. May the blessings of Luuna shine upon you, now and always... lvwg Origin: Mountain Serenity, Denver, Colorado USA @93:9903/2 "Walk always within Her light..." Reply is: Not Needed. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ...WARNING! OFF-TOPIC POST IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THIS ONE! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718