From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 1 Nov 96 08:54:02 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq On Oct 31 13:46 96, Mephisto of 93:9176/0 wrote: KH>>Refering, of course, to the Golden Dawn's "version" of the system. I KH>>dumped that one myself. Once I'm well versed in the original, then I'll rip KH>>off an of the workable advances the GD might have made. M> Well, they did a workable synthesis. And looking at it from an M> evolving-of-magick perspective, they did well. I don't know myself. At this point I feel they diluted it somewhat. For instance, the Calls were meant to be used all together- all at once. They aren't supposed to be used individually. Also, and this is worse, they make new recitations out of the Calls. There are two real good reasons why this is a bad idea. 1) You can't make new writings from old ones. A good example was when Coka Cola took a Chinese(?) phrasebook and attempted to contrsuct a slogan- something like "enjoy coke and smile" or some such. At any rate, the result was "Bite the red oyster" or something similar. ;) 2) My studies have shown that what we normally call the "Angelic Language" really isn't. Remember Dee and Kelley recieved two huge Tablets with something- presumably writings in Angelic- inscribed upon them. Then, the Angels made new words from those tablets to make the Calls: pointing to a letter here, and a letter there. Basically, the Calls are derived FROM Angelic, and I feel they are word-sigils of a sort based upon the two larger Tablets (though we can't comprehend the pattern). Therefore, taking the words from the Calls to make new recitations would be basically useless- or dangerous. As another example, I find the pyramid squares to be basically useless. And I have so far found no use for the Egyptian God-Forms (since they depend on the pyramid squares). But- be that as it may- the system still seemed to work for the GD. And even that is telling about the Enochian System... KH>>And lets not even TALK about the Schuler's "work" on the subject. ;) M> I still haven't found anyone willing to specify *exactly* what's M> wrong with Schueller's work. It was my first exposure to M> Enochian magick, and to a large degree I still like his stuff... M> Mainly as a sourcebook, but. . . I can tell you all sorts of things that are wrong. First- they are arm-chair magickians who have never tried the first spell. The "rituals" they give are half-assed and potentially dangerous. They also make up things and include them in their work with no good cause- such as the "translations" they give for all the Angel's Names. Not to mention that they treat Enochian like it's a little cookie-cutter system- which it hardly is. KH>>Merkavah Mysticism is what it's all about. It's about gaining entrance to KH>>t Palaces contained in each of the Seven Heavens. It was once very KH>>dangerous- but I don't yet know if it still is. M> Hell, looking on the face of God used to be dangerous, but they M> smooth down the edges of mirrors now. ;) ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 1 Nov 96 09:03:44 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq On Oct 31 13:49 96, Mephisto of 93:9176/0 wrote: KH>>I disagree. If the God does not exist, then placeing food in front of it KH>>weekly or daily (or whatever) is not beneficial in the least. Following KH>>the particular commands of the God does little to please the God if it KH>>doesn't KH>>exist. M> However, performing various ritual/obedience acts, whether or M> not there is some deity who gives a damn, does provide your M> subconscious, consciousness, life-in-general, the message that M> you desire certain effects therefrom... And if we allow the M> ability for one to create one's own reality, then the fact of M> deity, or lack thereof, becomes irrelevant; if you believe your M> actions yield certain results...they so yield. But- in pure worship, the only results you wish to yield are pleasing the God. It is debatable whether it matters in purely Magickal Operations- but in worship I think it's very important. Look what happens to Relgions who continue the worship even once they stop believing in the Deity... M> Course, if there is no such deity, I guess that makes us God. M> "Thou Art God!" ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 1 Nov 96 09:05:42 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq On Oct 31 13:54 96, Mephisto of 93:9176/0 wrote: JN>>use the stuff. And that paragraph doesn't say a damned thing about the JN>>Calls! M> A shame they didn't leave a blunt statement of pronunciation... M> The idea given (I think in the Enochian Dictionary by whomever) M> that they were just pronouncing it in garbled English makes it a M> truly barbaric language... Klingon 101 Prerequisite... Actually, I feel that the Angelic Words do not have a pronunciation at all. I have heard the theory that Angelic is a Language for Beings without physical bodies- at which point physical pronunciation becomes irrelevant. It also seems to be a fact that people get results with the Magick no matter how they pronounce the words- which supports the theory that pronunciation means little. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Chris Roedocker Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 1 Nov 96 22:07:02 Subject: Magic UpdReq <<***** On 10-31-96, Mephisto wrote to CHRIS ROEDOCKER: *****>> MM>CR>people to frog or anything. Can you give me some genral details? MM>Should I MM>CR>spell magic magick? Whats the diffrence? MM> MM> Precisely one "k". MM> MM> Very Funny. ___ X VbReader V1.4 Xwww.geocities.com/area51/1709/ 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Chris Roedocker 3 Nov 96 08:38:08 Subject: Magic UpdReq On Oct 31 12:49 96, Chris Roedocker of 93:9180/4 wrote: CR> I thought that was the reson the it is spelled Magick. I know so little I CR> Don't know where to start. I guess I want to know what it takes to do a CR> spell. I know the star-thing that the Jews use has something to do with CR> it.... What is a simple spell? Were would be a good source of more info. CR> What are some of the religous aspects. I can do this stuff withotu my CR> parents finding out? The Six-pointed Star is only one of thousands of possible symbols for use in Magick. The statement that it "has something to do with it", though, is highly misleading. It's not like every Magick user out there makes elaborate use of the symbol. ;) In fact, the five-point star (Pentagram) is more common. As for most all of your other questions: you are moving too fast. There are no simple spells. It will take you years to learn what it takes to do a spell. ;) And that's the truth. You have a LOT to learn before you even try your first spell- perhaps months worth, perhaps years (depending on how dedicated you are). As for more info, I recommend you buy the book "Modern Magick" by Don Kraig. It is a course for beginners, and it's a great one. If you like his book, and you are also interested in Wicca, then I suggest you follow it with "Between the Worlds" by Stuart Myers. As for your parents, that's hard to say. You can't have all the neat stuff unless you have a place to hide it, and can successfully pull it out to use it without getting caught. More than likely this isn't a great possibility. What you should do right now is read, read, read. There are things you can do without Tools (honestly you can do any of it without them). Just get the books and read them, and they will tell you what to do. Then, when the time comes, you'll know what you're talking about when you tell your parents about it. ;) Besides, 18 is only 3 years away. ;) CR> Is that enough quesions for you? Never. ;) Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kandilokai Ach Ishte Area: MagickNet To: Rain 29 Oct 96 01:15:00 Subject: A small essay.... UpdReq R=> By the way, can I borrow a post to you to address a couple of other R=> folks, since we seem to be having mail trouble again? If you could R=> please QUOTE BACK this section, maybe they'll see it and reply: I will be happy to do so. Here it is. R=> ********************* R=> * KHEPHERA * R=> ********************* R=> and R=> ********************** R=> * MORPHEUS SHAPIRO * R=> ********************** R=> ...please, this is Rain, and are you getting my posts? I've sent R=> them repeatedly, each time our cranky mail was supposedly fixed, and R=> I haven't heard back. I'm rain@hothouse.iglou.com if you can reply R=> by Internet mail, and Rain, 1:2320/180 on Fido; PODS netmail isn't R=> working here, so please don't try that. Oh, and Kheph, I seem to have R=> mislaid your Internet address. R=> Anyway: Morpheus, whet I've written to you includes a long post about R=> ministry to old people, and Kheph, I wrote you a ton of stuff, R=> including a long one about ways to free up your hands in ritual and R=> how to make a staff stand and such. Each has been posted three or R=> four times trying to get it through, and I'm really frustrated. R=> It is indeed no trouble. And please, do me the honor of calling me by my given name. It is Ishte. Kandilokai is my clan name, and also the name of many others of my clan. Iradi! Ishte P.S. On the previous note. If you know how to use pods netmail, would you be so kind as to enlighten me? I have been trying to figure it out for months now, tried several experiments and none have succeeded. I am using an offline reader and it still doesn't seem to go where I intend it too. It must be going to the cyberspace junk pile! Apatolo. -Ishte.\ --- * OLXWin 1.00b * Awright! Who double parked their dragon?! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tiki Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 2 Nov 96 13:03:10 Subject: ancient egypt &.... UpdReq KK> He, like all other Presidents and political leaders, was a KK> rich-boy who was born into the society of political leaders. KK> He is part of the Ruling Class, plain and simple. Actually, Clinton was born poor and raised by his grandmother. He did very well for himself and became a political weasel. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Morpheus Shapiro Area: MagickNet To: Mephisto 2 Nov 96 10:21:00 Subject: Book Of Enoch UpdReq MM> JN>The implication of that one paragraph is that the magician is expected MM> to MM> JN>learn their use by a sort of "bootstrap" method. He is supposed to MM> invoke MM> JN>all the angels of the Tablets over a period of fifteen days, and the MM> JN>angels themselves would thereafter show him how to go on to more MM> specific MM> JN>uses. MM> Ever given it a shot? :) I think this receiving instructions, including corrections to the grimoria that got you there, is common for many systems, but only known by those who have gone beyond the literary stage and begun getting useful information from a seeming outside source in our rites, and have experienced the phsycological changes within when developement of the skills of the magi progress. My rituals were focused on aquiring more magic skill. This lead, metal and trend, to a certainty about aquiring whole skills and ranges of understanding from the sigilas in Barrett's grimoir. On this sub, I first read of people who were also geting similar results. Now I am in a re-evaluation; Are there real evil spirits, or are they an aberation, an misuse of the highly charged atmosphere of the Sacred Ground. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718