From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Michael Giles 31 Jul 96 09:14:58 Subject: ALT.Magick UpdReq On Jul 27 17:47 96, Michael Giles of 93:9806/50 wrote: MG> love are the same thing. We can apply the same principal with the English MG> Qaballa. To Illistrate we could take a value of a name using the English MG> values and apply it to a Hebrew name with the same value, compare the two MG> meanings and assume that they were the same thing. MG> I have spent a considerable amount of time studying this portion of the MG> book of the law and have come to the conclusion that this must be what MG> Crowley was talking about when he says to attribute new symbols to the MG> Qaballa. A symbol in itself does not change. But symbols are MG> misunderstood. This is not an attempt to say the old Qaballa is obselete MG> as much as it is a means to shed new light on the Qaballa. MG> I welcome input or questions from anyone. I think you sum it all up quite well here. I'm not much into Crowley to contemplate what he may have "meant", but you seem to be on the right track in any case. The old ways would not be "obsolete", but certainly can be added to infinitely. This is true of any system, symbolism, etc. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: All 3 Aug 96 10:37:28 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq Welladay, hello. Question to pose to y'all: how much of magick involves insence, and, after this, how does one allergic to insence get around this problem...? Sorry, but it's true. Allergic to insence, however much I hate the fact... ::sigh:: Well...? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 3 Aug 96 15:41:14 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 03 10:37 96, Shadow Gryphon of 93:9087/0 wrote: SG> Welladay, hello. Question to pose to y'all: how much of magick involves SG> insence, and, after this, how does one allergic to insence get around this SG> problem...? Sorry, but it's true. Allergic to insence, however much I SG> hate the fact... ::sigh:: Well...? The main purpose of Ceremony (once all of the window-dressing has been striped from it) is simply to involve the Self totally. It is a way of centering your ENTIRE attention on one single goal- to the total exclusion of all else. Thus, a Ceremony invloves as many of the five senses as it can. Site and Touch (the Maickal Insturments), Hearing (Music, Invocatory Chants, etc), Taste (Eucharist-as in Catholic Mass, Cakes and Wine, Teas), and Smell (incense). We can also add to this the Intuition and Imagination that works as the glue for the whole mess. All of these are specifically designed to raise the Emotions (Raising Power), and direct them in the proper way to make the Magick "happen". Thus, the more of the five (or more) senses that are included, the better off you are going to be. So, that's the run down on not just incense, but ALL Ritual paraphenalia. Of course, there is more to it than that- but that is the basics of it. As for being allergic, there are other routes you can take. Have you tried burning oils instead of stick or powered incences? Or how about potpouri (if you can find the right scents)? Hell, you could even just take some oil and dab it under your nose, so that you smell it through the entire Ceremony. And, if all else fails, then don't use it at all. It helps, but it's not often you will find any one single thing that is a MUST in Magick. Incense isn't one of them...I Cast all the time without it. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 4 Aug 96 14:13:58 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Khephera to Shadow Gryphon on Sat Aug 03 1996 03:41 pm > you can find the right scents)? Hell, you could even just take some oil and > dab it under your nose, so that you smell it through the entire Ceremony. LOL! Good idea. I might do that- I haven't ever heard of burning oil; burning popori, yes, but burning oil, no. I'll have to try that out. Or else just find some -really- strong candles... Okay, thanks!!! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Shadow Gryphon 4 Aug 96 16:35:24 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq On Aug 04 14:13 96, Shadow Gryphon of 93:9087/0 wrote: >> you can find the right scents)? Hell, you could even just take some oil and >> dab it under your nose, so that you smell it through the entire Ceremony. SG> LOL! Good idea. It might sound funny...but it would work. ;) SG> I might do that- I haven't ever heard of burning oil; burning popori, yes, SG> but burning oil, no. I'll have to try that out. Or else just find some SG> -really- strong candles... Okay, thanks!!! Yep. You go and buy the scented oils, and put a couple of drops on a charcoal- it works VERY well, and tends to burn longer than powerdered incense. As for the candles, it's also a common practice to anoint such candles in the desired scent of oil- so you're on the right track. Although, in my experience, you won't get as strong a scent from that... Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Shadow Gryphon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 4 Aug 96 20:40:52 Subject: Hmmm... Oddball question... UpdReq RE: Hmmm... Oddball question... BY: Khephera to Shadow Gryphon on Sun Aug 04 1996 04:35 pm > Yep. You go and buy the scented oils, and put a couple of drops on a charco > it works VERY well, and tends to burn longer than powerdered incense. As fo > the candles, it's also a common practice to anoint such candles in the desir > scent of oil- so you're on the right track. Although, in my experience, you > won't get as strong a scent from that... On charcoal? Interesting. And about the oil-annointing the candles- I've done that! I'm -very- obsessed with candles and trying to make them, change their scent, everything. I've made my own candles from old candle wax, mixed in some massage oil with the melted oil of another candle while it was burning (that one smelled soooo good for a couple days.... cinnamon and stress-relief massage oil.)... Huh... I think I've already done that type of thing already... Coincidence? I wonder.... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Falcon 31 Jul 96 09:19:36 Subject: revelations UpdReq On Jul 24 18:39 96, Falcon of 93:9200/3 wrote: K>> There is a huge difference. If you can't see that, then you have a K>> long way to go indeed.... F> obviously, you are not able to answer both of the questions, but instead F> rely on a try to insult me. No, it's just that insulting you is much more fun. Anything more would be a waste of my time. ;) F> obviously, you are not interested in understanding if it gets complicated. Uhhh...yeah, sure....whatever you say. ;) Me hate compikatd things... K>> If you perform an operation that does not give the desired results, K>> then you screwed up. Period. [...] K>> They had little effect at first- but they DID have a little. F> that is simply *wrong*. I gave the example of science, and if you take a F> look into it, you'll see a hundred cases where at first nothing at all F> happened. Ah....but if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the reason nothing happened was becase the scientists did not know what they were doing. They tried, and got nothing. They tried something else, and got nothing. They continued with this trial and error method until SOMETHING HAPPENED! What a novel concept, eh? F> obviously again, insults are your main arguments. You misunderstand. Insults are not my main arguments. They are not arguments at all (if you look up the word, you will see that insults are not defined as arguments). I insult you because it's fun, and you seem like the insultable type. ;) F> If you had read my mail - F> as I told you before - you would have noticed, Do you know how much money you would save sysops around the world if you knew how to stop repeating yourself? F> You could also read something by Crowley that will quite obviously show you F> that your claim of: K>>>> There is *nothing* in Magickal Practice that you have to do over K>>>> and over again for it to work. F> was trashed at the start of the century. Not so at all. Present your evidence. Oh never mind, you're not going to. And, even if you did, I wouldn't respond to it. I hate to see the likes of you even attempting to use Crowley for backing. But, then again, the Church got away with using Jesus for backing for a LONG time... (not that I compair Crowley with the God Jesus- but I certainly compare you to the ignorance of the Church). K>> Laughter is about all you should look for. Because certainly that's K>> all there is for you. F> obviously, you neither know what Laughter means - especially for a chaos F> magickan - nor that your insults only force another grin from me. You cannot F> hurt me, because I do not care about you. Damn. I was hoping you cared! Now I'm crushed. :):):) And I do know what Laughter means! It means "to drive a nail into a solid surface". F> obviously, you don't even know the word "sarcasm". Actually I don't....what does that mean? K>> And I suppose you are one? You have yet to show me the first bit of K>> evidence of that. You have posted nothing of any Magickal relevance, F> obviously, you have not read very carefully, I sure wish I was getting a dollar for everytime you say this. But then, as you said, you're not redundant. And you don't repeat yourself either! F> as I have already done so in the past and present. Actually, you're right. It was your Will to make an ass out of yourself, and you accomplished that. Good job. ;) F> The difference is that I F> do not write the sheer amount that you do, but try to achive a maximum F> quality-to-quantity ratio. Keep trying. ;) F> Therefore, text postings by me are scarce, but have *always* resulted in F> productive arguments both in public and netmail. Not always. What's productive about this? You're just being Conan's little toady. Well, at least your not whinning yet... F> obviously, these are meaningless insults again. Sorry for this stupid Not so meaningless. F> question, but what are you trying to do? I can not understand why someone F> who claims to be a magician, whom one would expect to be able to control F> himself, is throwing around insults with no reason to them. F> If you cannot control yourself - how are you going to control the universe? First, only an ignorant person like yourself would assume that the goal of Magick is to "control the Universe". Second, I am in perfect control of myself. I do not write these things to you in anger, or for any loss of my emotions. Quite frankly, I'm having fun with you. And you're just stupid enough to keep posting to me. ;) Perhaps you should read the Principia Discordia. Fnord. ;) Idiot. K>> You're ignorant little "challenge" to me fell on it's face..... F> obviously it did not. F> You have not been able to prove anything. F> Nothing. F> Nil. Ummmmmm....I don't actually recall setting out to prove anything. You have challenged me to "prove myself". But, I have nothing to prove. I had nothing to prove with Conan, and nothing to prove with you. What you think doesn't affect me in the slighest. You are funny to watch, though. Kind of like being in a zoo... F> obviously, Aaron, that's exactly what you are: a really swell guy! Ah, and now he uses my first name without the least bit of permission from me. Not only are you ignorant, but you are rude and insulting as well. Keep up the good work! I need the entertainment. ;) But, thanks for the compliment you did tack on the end there. :) Idiot. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Khephera Area: MagickNet To: Pan 31 Jul 96 09:37:52 Subject: Re: words UpdReq On Jul 27 08:00 96, Pan of 93:9806/50 wrote: P> WOW... are you guys done. bicker and argue. splittin hairs over silly P> little things. i know what it means to be misunderstood, but talk about P> beating the proverbial dead horse. I know. At some point I'll beat this dead horse off of my back. He's friends with someone who doesn't like me....so you know how that goes... P> my point is that now you got that out of your systems let's see what points Oh, I'm sure he doesn't.... ;) But, for everyone elses sake, I may just start ignoring him as I keep threatening. It's just so DAMN tempting, you know? P> we can agree on. i tried to establish something of this sort with the 'love' P> postings i did, thinking someone would follow my train of thaught. Finally! Someone who can actually have an intelligent conversation with me! Let's get to it... P> ..seems to me that the reason for doing magics is to evolve as a human to P> reach new heights (and lows) and for the greater glory of god.. which can be P> reduced to say.. for love's sake (don't misunderstand me). I understand you. And I agree- whether you say "God" or "Self" or what-have-you. It's a system of Spiritual Evolution. Or, Ascention. Even the Low Magicks work toward this goal in the long run. Maybe they are not based on that- but doing ANY Magick is a "work out" for the Soul, and thats good for you overall. P> to try and justify (and i'm not talking about experementing so as to P> destroy ignorance) one's lower will, to appease the hungry ghost in a way P> that does not fulfill the higher principal would be to miss the mark (sin in P> greek, i think). From here we could go into the concepts of Higher and Lower Self. Is the Lower Self really so disconnected from the Higher Will? I feel that it is our Concious Selves that has put the Lower Self in it's bad state. Perhaps, left alone, it would have been in line with the Higher Will all along. After all, the Lower Self is the most animal and natural part of us, and what is more natural than following out the Higher Will? My own system uses the Symbology of Lilith (Lower Self) and her flight from Eden because of Adam (Conscious Mind), and her resulting marriage to Samael (Divine Severity). Lilith isn't to be "defeated", but actually Freed from Samael's grasp. P> i also believe in this age that it is imperative to realize P> this and act upon it. even though it may be painful to grow it is demanded P> of us. thus this is the great judgement by fire, when jusus comes around P> again. I've written a document on Revelations that you might like to see that just so happens to cover this. ;) P> the idea seems to be that we can all be like jesus, which is to say P> that he was the connecting link betwene us and god, Which is why He is placed in Tiphareth upon the Tree of Life. P> but that that is an illusion which is being shattered. we are the beni P> elohim, each and every one... .. how's that? Exactly. We aren't being "like" Jesus (outside of using that mythos character as the model), but we are BEING Jesus. Blessed Be, may Yahweh and His Asherah guide and keep thee, Ar ReX Em SeXem Eref Neter Au-a Rx Khephera 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718