From: Falcon Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 24 Jul 96 18:39:00 Subject: revelations UpdReq F>> are you sure there is such a qualitative difference? why? K> There is a huge difference. If you can't see that, then you have a K> long way to go indeed.... obviously, you are not able to answer both of the questions, but instead rely on a try to insult me. K> And to assume that any part of it is immutable (ie, a Dogma) is K> incorrect. obviously, you have not noticed that "Dogma" is the word _you_ used, not I. F>> reread my mail. Khephera, a general hint: *Read* my mails. All of F>> them. Try to understand the context, not only the lonely sentences. K> Not a chance. If you can't get your ideas across correctly, that is K> not my problem. obviously, you are not interested in understanding if it gets complicated. K> If you perform an operation that does not give the desired results, K> then you screwed up. Period. obviously, you have not read my mail, because I wrote: F>> namely that some things have a long way to go before reaching a goal. - I *am* talking about the reaching of goals. *But*: K> They had little effect at first- but they DID have a little. that is simply *wrong*. I gave the example of science, and if you take a look into it, you'll see a hundred cases where at first nothing at all happened. K> You really have no clue, do you? Certain operations are cumulative, K> yes. But, to think that any one part of the operation doesn't have K> it's own expected results is ignorance. Which....you do seem to have K> a way of showing...;) obviously again, insults are your main arguments. If you had read my mail - as I told you before - you would have noticed, that I am talking about the development of stuff, not about the conduction of tried and trusted rituals with cumulative effects. You could also read something by Crowley that will quite obviously show you that your claim of: K>>> There is *nothing* in Magickal Practice that you have to do over K>>> and over again for it to work. was trashed at the start of the century. K> Laughter is about all you should look for. Because certainly that's K> all there is for you. obviously, you neither know what Laughter means - especially for a chaos magickan - nor that your insults only force another grin from me. You cannot hurt me, because I do not care about you. F>> oh, the great guru knows exactly what can be done and what can't. F>> Khephera, K> Thank you for finally admiting this. obviously, you don't even know the word "sarcasm". K> And I suppose you are one? You have yet to show me the first bit of K> evidence of that. You have posted nothing of any Magickal relevance, obviously, you have not read very carefully, as I have already done so in the past and present. The difference is that I do not write the sheer amount that you do, but try to achive a maximum quality-to-quantity ratio. Therefore, text postings by me are scarce, but have *always* resulted in productive arguments both in public and netmail. K> and have repeatedly shown me in your arguments that you don't have the K> first clue about what you're speaking of. You flip and flop all over K> the place so much it's not even funny. obviously, these are meaningless insults again. Sorry for this stupid question, but what are you trying to do? I can not understand why someone who claims to be a magician, whom one would expect to be able to control himself, is throwing around insults with no reason to them. If you cannot control yourself - how are you going to control the universe? F>> if your magick is on the mental planes only, it only encompasses a F>> quarter of the world. I'd call that a failure. K> But you have nothing with which to compare that with, do you? obviously, you're on the insult-him-instead-of-argue trip again. K> You're ignorant little "challenge" to me fell on it's face..... obviously it did not. You have not been able to prove anything. Nothing. Nil. obviously, Aaron, that's exactly what you are. * Origin: EOT (93:9200/3) SEEN-BY: 93/0 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2630/315 9000/0 1 2 6 8 9001/0 SEEN-BY: 9004/0 9007/0 9009/0 9010/0 9020/0 9040/0 9060/0 9070/0 9080/0 SEEN-BY: 9081/0 9082/0 9083/0 9084/0 9085/0 9087/0 9088/0 9089/0 9090/0 SEEN-BY: 9100/0 9200/0 1 2 3 7 8 12 13 15 18 19 22 77 200 9280/0 9300/0 SEEN-BY: 9400/0 23 9410/0 9440/0 9600/0 6 9603/0 9605/0 9606/0 9607/0 9608/0 SEEN-BY: 9610/0 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 9670/0 9680/0 9700/0 9800/0 SEEN-BY: 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Michael Giles Area: MagickNet To: All 27 Jul 96 17:47:00 Subject: ALT.Magick UpdReq Hi all, Just looking through your message bases. Thought I'd drop in and say hi. I posted an artical in Alt.magick. Got a few interesting responses through private E-mail. But as far as the news group is concerned it seemed to go right over everyones head. Thought I'd post it hear and see what everyone thinks. Newsgroup alt.magick Subject: Book of the law key From: levi@netnet.net (mike giles) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 1996 23:43:02 In the book of the Law Crowley left instructions for people to determine the value of the English Qaballa. Fear not, O prophet, When these words are said, thou shalt not be sorry. Thou art emphatically my chosen; and blessed are the eyes that thou shalt look upon with gladness. But I will hide thee in a mask of sorrow; they that see thee shall fear thou art fallen; but I lift thee up. Nor shall they who cry aloud their folly that thou meanest nought avail thou shall reveal it: thou availest; they are the slaves of because; They are not of me. The stops as thou wilt; the letters? change them not in style or value! THOU SHALL OBTAIN THE ORDER F VALUE TO THE ENGLISH ALPHEBET; THOU SHALL FIND NEW SYMBOLS TO ATTRIBUTE THEM ONTO In chapter 3 vs. 47 Crowley says that this book shall be transalated into all toungs but always with the originial in the writing of The Beast, for in the chance shape of the letters and their position to one another: in these are mystries which no beast shall divine. The key to determining the value of the English Qaballa is th the rest of vs. 47, wiich is drawn over a grid pattern of 80 squares. The letters A-H are written across the top of the grid and the numbers 2-10 are written down the right side of the grid. There is a slanted line drawn across the page which starts at the square that contains the letter C and ends in collumn E line 7. Next to the line is a symbol called a Rose Cross. The line gives you the key to determine the value of the English Qaballa. A L W H S D O Z K V G R C 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 N Y J U F Q B M X I T E P 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 These are the value of the English letters according to Liber AL. The question that this raises is, "are the old Hebrew values obsolete"? At least this is what I assumed Crowley meant when I first began my research on this rather odd portion of Liber AL. Further the rules for spelling a name in English and in Hebrew are much different. Consider the name METATRON. In Hebrew it would be spelled MEM TAU TAU RESH VAV NUN=314 English METATRON=130 are we to assume that the meaning of Metatron is different than it was before Liber AL was published? In a sence. With Gemantric values we can take two different words with apparently different meanings and call them the same word. Take the name Achad, for example,. Meaning Unity, One (ALEPH CHETH DALETH)=13, now take the name Ahebah, meaning love, (ALEPH HEY BETH HEY)=13. We can now assume that unity and love are the same thing. We can apply the same principal with the English Qaballa. To Illistrate we could take a value of a name using the English values and apply it to a Hebrew name with the same value, compare the two meanings and assume that they were the same thing. I have spent a considerable amount of time studying this portion of the book of the law and have come to the conclusion that this must be what Crowley was talking about when he says to attribute new symbols to the Qaballa. A symbol in itself does not change. But symbols are misunderstood. This is not an attempt to say the old Qaballa is obselete as much as it is a means to shed new light on the Qaballa. I welcome input or questions from anyone. Fr. Levi Methushael levi@netnet.net or this message base for that matter 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Pan Area: MagickNet To: Khephera 27 Jul 96 08:00:00 Subject: Re: words UpdReq WOW... are you guys done. bicker and argue. splittin hairs over silly little things. i know what it means to be misunderstood, but talk about beating the proverbial dead horse. my point is that now you got that out of your systems let's see what points we can agree on. i tried to establish something of this sort with the 'love' postings i did, thinking someone would follow my train of thaught. ..seems to me that the reason for doing magics is to evolve as a human to reach new heights (and lows) and for the greater glory of god.. which can be reduced to say.. for love's sake (don't misunderstand me). to try and justify (and i'm not talking about experementing so as to destroy ignorance) one's lower will, to appease the hungry ghost in a way that does not fulfill the higher principal would be to miss the mark (sin in greek, i think). i also believe in this age that it is imperative to realize this and act upon it. even though it may be painful to grow it is demanded of us. thus this is the great judgement by fire, when jusus comes around again. the idea seems to be that we can all be like jesus, which is to say that he was the connecting link betwene us and god, but that that is an illusion which is being shattered. we are the beni elohim, each and every one... .. how's that? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718