From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Lord Wart 10 May 95 21:06:32 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting Lord Wart to Pope Erik Arneson <=- LW> Hello there folks... LW> We need to put this in perspective. Fewer people died in that LW> bombing than died in an average plane accident... and yet it is a LW> major news story? Only the fact that it is the latest in domestic LW> terrorism (or whatever label you subscribe to this week) makes it LW> "medializable". It all depends on the perspective that you are coming from, realy. I was three blocks from the explosion on the south side. on the sixth floor in the county court house, the floor heaved up and tossed my wife and I about a foot strait up in the air, she lost her balance and fell hard, I cuaght mine, but I am still suffering from pain in my knees, hips, and lower back, but have no pitty on me, please, the families of those that lost someone, that is who we need to be concerned for, and the people who risked they're lives to go in and rescue people and found mostly, parts of bodies, they will have to live with something comparible to, if not actualy being, post war syndrom. LW> The Pope is quite correct. I have participated in LW> two wars and several "advisory capacities"; I have (unfortunately) LW> seen far more than that go back on the Wheel at one time. He is LW> correct in noting that many die before their "appointed time" every LW> day despite the attempts of some to avoid it. I feel for those who LW> died there (a friend of mine was one of the recruiters based there), LW> but do not let us go wild because of it. Celebrate their return to the LW> Wheel, and remember that life itself goes on despite any pitiful LW> attempts of ours to change that. LW> ! Origin: Inn of the Sleeping Cat (93:9810/0) I believe that when God decides that we go, we go, I have saw many a case, such as a child bumping his chin on the dash of a car, in a simple fender bender, died instantly, and in retrospect one of my best friends lived after a train smashed into the drivers side of the car, he was pulled out of the twisted recage, that looked as in the car had been put into one of those crushers at the junk yard, he got out with a broken back, broken neck, and was up and walking good in a year, but the bulk of the time in the hospital was spent when he was told that his friend died, instantly, no less. My friend spent two more years in the mental hospital, becuase he broke down, you see, my friend was driving, the pasanger died instantly, how could that have been, the train hit the drivers side? God takes them when it is they're time. People have put guns to they're head, pulled the triger, and the bullet came out, and went into there head, poped out the other side, and the person bearly had to worry about blood getting on them little own there family having to bury them. Relevent to The Down Town Bombing the majority of the dead were those burried under ruble, or blown to bits were the building was no more, but a select few. puting enphisis on "select", free fell 8 floors, landed on someone or something soft and walked away. Many strange things happened here in the city on April the 19th, and the normal 'ol American boy that I am, 28 years old and all, has never seen the like of what I saw down town that day, and I never want to see it again, or even hear of it, you being a person that has saw such carnage, and yes maybe even worse should feel the same. Yes I believe that there has been worse things what Hitler did to all of those people, and children too, every war that has ever happened to date, took more civilian casualties than military, even to the point that in some nations they shove an automatic into the hands of an 8 year old, and he takes lives, and then his life is taken. But none of that can justify, lesson, or be little what has happened to the USA, if you have children, or a wife, or another loved one, that would have been in that building, would have you said "Get back to living friends and neighbors"," I've saw worse things happen"? You need to talk to one of the crew chiefs that is heading clean up down there my friend, he served in four wars, 3 of them the bloodiest on this planet, and he, although he sais it thru crying and a cracked voice, says he would gladly go back to the battle fields of the past, and take a bullet in the brain, than to go back into that building one more, time, and then he gets up in the morning, drinks a cup of coffee, and goes back in, not becuase its his job, but becuase there might still be a chance... The search ended last weekend... and you have the gift of distencing yourself from this place, just like we had the luxery of distancing ourselves from the battle feild, be glad, a communications barrier has been broke, curtisy of the lives of 27 babies, and nearly 200 people, is that what it takes? BASTIAN FALKOR :[ ... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Charles Miner Area: MagickNet To: Wolvesbane 10 May 95 21:22:06 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq -=> Quoting Wolvesbane to Lord Wart <=- LW> die before their "appointed time" every day despite the LW> attempts of some to avoid it. LW> I feel for those who died there (a friend of mine LW> was one of the recruiters based there), but do not let LW> us go wild because of it. Celebrate their return to the LW> Wheel, and remember that life itself goes on despite LW> any pitiful attempts of ours to change that. Wo> For some odd reason I felt the same way. With my studying of Wicca I Wo> have seen the subject of reincarnation and that people leave this Wo> incantation when their time has come. Still..I have to ponder how it Wo> could have been so many infants' time to die. That is a large Wo> number....if there is a bigger picture than what we are able to Wo> handle...I wonder what big picture contains that much devestation. Wo> Peace Wo> Wolvesbane... Wo> ! Origin: MacFinn's House of Dreams (93:9040/4) Greetings, Wolvesbane, First of all, could you post the # to MacFinn's House of Dreams, I have not visited there in a while, lost the number, if its private now, talk to MacFinn himself, tell him Bastian Falkor's lookin for him, again, live alone now, have 'puter, will chat :) Now about the post, you mentioned that you rest confertable, or at least partialy, because you beleieve in reincarnation, this is fine, let me explain, I am not trying to flame you, I just want to get my 2 cents worth in here... I am Christian, but I am one of the few that believes that there is merit in the Wiccain beliefs, I believe that Jesus basicly said so, and if we ever get a chance to read all the written words of Christ it would be pointadly clear, but I do not believe in reincarnation, as to it meaning, that everyone is reincarnated after death, I believe more towards the spiritual realm, and is my opinion that God takes people when it is there time, no man is capable of taking his or anyone elses life prematurly. It is my belief that many angels were called to duty on April the 19th, some were around 200 of them. Those angels will help the following hold true, That, until next we chat, Peace, Hugs, and Big Time Blessings, be upon you. BASTIAN FALKOR :] ... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Wolvesbane Area: MagickNet To: Charles Miner 11 May 95 12:27:18 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq CM> First of all, could you post the # to MacFinn's House CM> of Dreams, I have not CM> visited there in a while, lost the number, if its private now, talk to You bet...787-2374 CM> in here... CM> I am Christian, but I am one of the few that believes CM> that there is merit in CM> the Wiccain beliefs, I believe that Jesus basicly CM> said so, and if we ever CM> get a chance to read all the written words of Christ CM> it would be pointadly Wow..this is the first time I have ever heard this from a Christian! :) CM> angels were called to duty on April the 19th, some CM> were around 200 of them. CM> Those angels will help the following hold true, But, why only let some of those children live a few years? They learned hardly anything in life... Peace Wolvesbane 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Macfinn Area: MagickNet To: Wolvesbane 12 May 95 02:59:44 Subject: Re: Bombing Victims UpdReq W> But, why only let some of those children live a few W> years? They learned hardly anything in life... Gotta understand this, it was not a divine act, action or inaction that caused the bombing. It was the act of a few men filled with hatred. It really wasn't their time to die, I and a circle of others have felt that they haven't even passed over the bridge yet and are not even aware that they are dead. It's not a matter of let, or allow; they had no real choice (being children) at all and it was not their will but the will of their guardians that placed them there (this is not to blame) and the will of the bombers (herein lies the blame). As I have told others, it was a Magickal act, it was afterall by Crowley's def. an act of will to cause change, and an extremely hate filled act of magick at that; react accordingly, mirror it back to 'whomever', ground it, send it to chaos or oblivion. Psychic self defence man, use what you know. =M= 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Lewis Cypher 12 May 95 11:46:00 Subject: High and Low Magic UpdReq Thus said Lewis Cypher to Josh Norton concerning High and Low Magic: LC> Excellent explaination. That is what I am doing, part of the time, in my LC> work with the Celestial Intelligences. My first wish was for more LC> understanding of magic-natch. So, I have been getting these talismans LC> for this and that, the symbols come from the CI, and I have been LC> experimenting with automatic writing, as a mode to try and transcribe LC> or draw symbols that have nothing within my past experience to 'grab' LC> onto, so they are ambiguous. To tell the truth, its been kind of slow LC> and uncertain with the automatic written symbol parts. The symbols LC> shown in the scrystone are much more lasting and complete. No fuzzy LC> intent in the middle to create doubt. Sounds like you've worked out a practical method for now. I agree with you about automatic writing; there's too much chance for subconscious/unconscious factors to screw it up. Better to see it. LC> LC> "a vision that explains the nature of a magickal force or region in detail" LC> is what I am seeking, at times too. I have been using various aids, LC> chants, warmups, diet, and devices to try to get more out of each LC> contact. The timing comes by so seldom that I tend to do these round LC> the clock marathons for as long as a week, invoking each CI and godform LC> in its turn. When you are hot, you are hot. In these sessions, I LC> sleep little, eat much, and fill downtime with calculations, trips to LC> the art store and library for material, and watching a small collection LC> of heavy magic orientated documovies. After the third day, the outside LC> world ceases to exist, and a now expected set of thoughts and feelings LC> take over. The work does the work. I feel I could go on forever, LC> both then and now, so I will sumerize it by saying that the fare at LC> that universal table is quite sustaining. LC> Just remember such heavy work takes a cumulative toll on your nervous system -- you can get into some very crazy states of mind without realizing it. JN> Sometimes the spirit will provide you with a name or a nonsense word which, JN> when analyzed by gematria, connects with the details of the other JN> information they provide you. See Israel Regardie's books "The Golden JN> Dawn" and "The Complete Golden Dawn" for details. LC> LC> Hey, that is heavy. I will see how that works out from my notes. I have LC> been given many 'nonsense words' which I wrote down as best as I LC> could. I like permutations and recombinations. LC> I wouldn't count on too much with previously-received words; usually you have to have be familiar with the gematria values of the letters and decide consciously that the method might be useful before they will use it. And there's lots of ways to go astray with the method, given an entire language to work with. If you're interested, I believe the Baphonet BBS still has a copy of my gematria dictionary. It has most Hebrew divine names, the entire contents of Crowley's _Sepher Sephiroth_, and a thousand or so additional Hebrew words, all sorted by their gematria values. It might make a good base for your own work. Modem Magick might also have a copy -- I'm not sure what all got sent there. ... Double-check the redundancy generator, will you? --- Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 * Origin: Access! Information Services (93:9000/2) SEEN-BY: 102/943 107/946 215/9393 666/119 1000/1 2000/11 9000/0 2 6 8 10 SEEN-BY: 9005/0 9007/0 9008/0 9009/0 9010/0 9020/0 9030/0 9040/0 9060/0 SEEN-BY: 9070/0 9080/0 2 4 6 7 10 12 20 9081/0 9083/0 9084/0 9090/0 9100/0 SEEN-BY: 9200/0 9300/0 9400/0 3 23 9410/0 9420/0 9430/0 9500/0 9600/0 6 7 SEEN-BY: 9601/0 9603/0 9605/0 9608/0 9609/0 9620/0 9630/0 9640/0 9650/0 SEEN-BY: 9660/0 9697/0 9800/0 9900/0 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 12 May 95 08:22:54 Subject: Thought and reality Pvt UpdReq Christeos - 93. CP> Then there's no such thing as Reality. CP> Love is the law, love under will. Tell that to the semi in the oncoming lane while you're passing (g). "Didn't you hear the God in the elephant saying 'Get out of the way!'?" Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Divine Madwoman 9 May 95 17:42:02 Subject: Wu magic Pvt UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Divine Madwoman zwan Doug Nelson ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Wu magic, n'qah? DN> Does anyone have any info or references on the Chinese magical DN>tradition known as Wu magic. (Thats all I know, research for a friend :) DM> Pretty slim clue! :) I'm wracking my brains here, cuz I can't find a DM> direct reference, but isn't there such a thing as the Dancing Wu Li DM> Masters? _The_Dancing_Wu_Li_Masters_ is a book by Gary Zukav which deals with similarities between quantum physics and Zen. "Wu li" is a Chinese expression which, depending on pitch and intonation, may translate into any of 5 different English expressions, but I don't remember any of them. I recall that the book was quite good, and seemed easier to understand than Fritjof Capra's _The_Tao_of_Physics_, which predates Zukav's book and deals with much the same material. --Kai MacTane. ... ERROR: COLDBEER.CAN not found! USER.SYS not loaded. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: White Spider Area: MagickNet To: Thomas Izaguirre 12 May 95 06:31:04 Subject: Re: Re : Bombing Victims UpdReq I Overheard Thomas Izaguirre Whispering To Bard! TI> I was dismayed by the media's kneejerk assumption that like the TI> stereotypical scapegoat black men have become for horrible TI> crimes, Islam was blamed. Now, not surprisingly, it turns out I don't know what the sources were in Wisconsin, who blamed Islam for the bombing. I DO know, that someone called in, soon after the bombing, in the OKC area, CLAIMING to be with "The Nation of Islam"...and claiming responsibility for the bombing. (hrmph!) Takes all kinds, I guess. After working with some of the victims, and some of the rescuers, and seeing the pain inflicted by this disaster, it would be VERY easy to want to point fingers and say, "This group did it...." or "That group did it". Because when horrified to this magnitude, we HAVE to have someone....something....ANYTHING...to "blame". There were actually some folks in OKC who posted (not in this net) that the disaster was "a visitation of God, in judgement of an evil nation"....made me sick to read that. We now know, of course, that Islam was NOT involved with the bombing, but rather some of the folks associated with various paramilitary groups. They "hate the government"....heck. Our government does many things with which I do not agree, but I don't voice my displeasure by blowing up buildings. I can't explain, nor understand the mentality of ANYONE who could do something so heinous....but then, I don't have to. I have TRIED to make some sense of this, but there is none. No reason...no rationale...no logic. Just someone wanting to impose as much pain and terror as humanly possible...and to that degree, they partially succeeded. But, living in Oklahoma (about 25 minutes from ground zero), I have seen all of us pulling together....helping one another....caring for each other, in such a way that is gratifying and comforting to me. I am just grieved that it took THIS, to bring out what was always there, in most of us. It is my sincere desire to see justice in this disaster. Unfortunately, I do not think that the "perpetrators" were limited to the two suspects now in custody. I have a gut feeling that perhaps, dozens were involved. Well, they will have to live with themselves. Justice, healing, closure, peace....they're all words that have become a GREAT portion of Oklahoman's vocabulary in the past few weeks. May we find them fulfilled. White Spider 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718