From: Dave Mcclanahan Area: MagickNet To: Wored 1 Feb 95 21:01:00 Subject: Sabbat UpdReq W Etymologically, sabbath is the day of `rest'. The word ultimately comes fro W `Saturday' comes from the same source. BUUUZZZZZZ! Wrong. Saturday comes from Saturn's Day originating with the romans. Dave Mc JABBER v1.2 The platypus was created right after marijuana. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dr Phelix Area: MagickNet To: All 1 Feb 95 21:46:00 Subject: Magic, Wicca, Et Al UpdReq Greets all. I am looking to expand my knowledge of magic and am wondering which systems are which. What do they teach, what are there methods and related 'religions' etc. All my magic comes naturally, meaning that I've had no training in any system, only what I've picked up in passing from books. Mainly SF/Fan novels. My major abilities with magic seem to be probabilty bending, espcially with the weather and seeking. As an example of the first it NEVER rains on my camping trips, and only while I'm driving to any of my other vacations, even during 'rainy season' or when the weather service has predicted rain. Also I've never lived anywhere that had a drought while I was living there. An example of seeking would be that I never lose anything for long. If I discover something missing I can close my eyes and 'feel' it's position relitive to me (i.e. 10 deg up 30 deg to the right and 50 ft away). I can also find objects which aren't mine if I am well familar with the 'feel' of the object (knowing the specifics of its color, shape, size, texture, and make). This also works for places I've been, so I never get lost. I can 'feel' my way back home. I would like to learn more about magic, so as to expand on my talents and/or learn new ones, but I wouldn't even know where to start, of even if what I do falls under any of the magic systems, or just ESP. Thanks, Doc JABBER v1.2 Reality isn't. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Frater M.'. O.'. M.'. 3 Feb 95 23:49:26 Subject: "secret" groups UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Frater M.'. O.'. M.'. zwan Kai Mactane ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth "secret" groups, n'qah? KM> Yeah, oaths like that have always bothered me, too. I mean, what KM> if you get involved and decide you don't like the group? Since they're KM> secret, you pretty much *have* to join to find out if you want to KM> join, y'know? FMOM> Not really. While I can't speak for Freemasonry, the OTO has an FMOM> "evaluation" degree (Minerval), where one can join and a mutual FMOM> evaluation can occur. I did not know that. The O.T.O. isn't my style (from what I can see), but that's encouraging to know. FMOM> For that matter, what ever happened to independent investigation? FMOM> Despite being "secret" societies, there's not much that's *really* FMOM> secret about such organizations at this point, except perhaps signs, FMOM> grips, and passwords that are changed on a regular basis. True, but I feel that there's a truly crucial difference between the way the group looks on paper and the way it acts in the flesh. The library research wouldn't help much. In general, your other suggestions make sense, though. Thank you for the input. --Kai MacTane. ... Real role-players cast "Control Cthulhu." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Avery 6 Feb 95 14:49:32 Subject: Triple goddess myths UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Avery zwan All ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Triple goddess myths, n'qah? Av> I am writing a thesis on the Triple Goddess, and I would like to Av> solicit opinions from the people in this echo on the validity or Av> non-validity of C. Leland's "Aradia" and R. Graves' "The White Av> Goddess" theories. Let's see... Graves himself considers "The White Goddess" to be poetic fiction, *NOT* history. It's wonderful stuff to base rituals on and so forth, but if anyone tries to tell me "This is what my Wiccan ancestors did centuries ago," I laugh in their face. (Understand, I have no problem with using traditions someone scribbled down last Thursday; I do it myself when the mood strikes me. I just have a problem with folks lying about what they're doing and where their stuff comes from, and thus confusing people that actually want to learn a bit of truth.) Now, about Aradia, it's harder to say just what's going on. The most plausible theory, in *my* opinion, is: Some scraps of Etruscan Paganism survived up in the hills of northern Italy, and Maddalena, Leland's source, was connected with them. Leland managed to charm her into telling him about it, but she left out a few bits for some reasons of secrecy. Leland then put a bit of his own anarchist/socialist spin on it (possibly without realizing it) and published it. Other points of view are also defensible, however. :) --Kai MacTane. ... Don't question authority; it doesn't know either. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 7 Feb 95 03:30:40 Subject: Nature and CM Circles UpdReq Paul-- This is the topic dragged over from _Celtic_. There had been mention of Celtic magick as being more nature-oriented than CM, which we were basically willing to grant as probably true. It reminded me of an observation by a Wiccan friend in Massachusetts, who I guess tried out a little CM, just to see what it was about. (Kai grants her points for open-mindedness...) She said that doing the LBRP outdoors gave her a sense of "architecture," as though pillars and a ceiling were being erected. By contrast, she said casting a Wiccan circle indoors felt like leaves and vines had come inside. She didn't call either of these bad or good, btw, just observed the difference in "feel" and "style" between the two. I checked for it, and didn't notice anything, really. I guess the two circles felt different to actually cast, but I put that down to the rituals being different. Once in place, the only real difference, for me, was that the LBRP circle felt more "permeable" (at least to a human body) than the Wiccan circle. And on that note, I recall that when I started learning CM, I was really surprised when I noticed that you don't really take the circle down. You can just walk through the sucker. I also noticed that while every Wiccan "textbook" tells you to cast your circle in bright blue (as near as I can tell, the same color used for the pentacles in the LBRP), the actual _circle_ part of the LBRP is done in pure white. I immediately theorized that the color might have something to do with the permeability -- blue gives you a "solid" circle, white allows you to walk out when you need to -- but when I tried testing it, I was unable to convince myself that the results I got (which were just what I expected) weren't caused by my own expectations in that regard. (This also got me thinking about the effects of circles done in other colors of the rainbow, but the theory went nowhere, and I still considered the first experiment hopelessly inconclusive, so I didn't follow up on it.) Anyway, I was wondering what you or any of the other _MagickNet_ denizens might have to say on the subject. Any of you noticed any "feel" differences between CM and Wiccan circles? Anyone got any ideas about the whole color thing? --Kai MacTane. ... I played poker with tarot cards: got a flush and five people died. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Kai Mactane 7 Feb 95 17:27:36 Subject: Nature and CM Circles UpdReq Kai - The analogy of architecture vs. horticulture seems apt - give the *usual* takes on Wiccan look-and-feel vs. ceremonial. The concept of "building the astral temple" is a fairly common one in most hermetic approaches ("the temple built not with hands," etc.). I've never noticed greater or less permeability - my bod can go through without a tickle - my head stops a moment and registers it is crossing the boundaries - in both cases. There's a point in aikido that is akin - by a stopwatch, the "attacker" stops a half second or less, but it provides all the time the "defender" needs to take control of the situation. Naga ("defender") can invoke this moment outside of time by moving with ki, which is to say, with the universal flow. I try and cast circles with the same sense. And that's about all I can say in print - I can demonstrate the principle easily enough, but talking about it is about as useful as trying to describe music in text (even in notation, it only works if both correspondents have referents for the symbols). If you've ever studied martial art, you probably know what I mean. Color coding - I have to think it also ties into the meaning your unconscious - the source of all magick in some models, once we learn to "talk" to it in symbols we can formulate clearly - assigns to the colors. Ritual involves so much that is directly tied in to "expectation." I find different mindsets in the LBRP (and I regard this as one of those Swiss Army Knife rituals, which has many different attachments one can learn to use) produce different results, and different feels/textures/??? to the resulting sacred space. A pivotal difference, as you note, is "taking down the circle." If I understand the Wiccan model, the circle is itself an entity, and it goes somewhere else when its job is done (I am not ascribing this to any Wiccan teacher - its my own reaction to the proper care and feeding of circles as taught by various people - either in print or ones I've been privileged to learn from in corpus). The LBRP is more overtly perceived as manifesting something that is always there, and it is our awareness of it that comes and goes. Again, as in many "Wiccan vs CM" discussions, the issue may be more one of emphasis, since many Witches of my acquaintance also view ritual as a means of turning on overt awareness of what is always there, within and without. Be as may, one can do the LBRP in many of its modes, and then just leave the space. It depends on the work. If invoking beings or energy into that space, then this is not recommended by "the authorities" (g). If doing it to center/ground, or as an exercise/kata, then when done, you just leave. Paul 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718