From: Claude John Hugwell Area: MagickNet To: Rab 26 Nov 94 15:05:00 Subject: Re: Chaos UpdReq -=> Quoting Rab to Josh Norton <=- on Chaos -=> Quoting Josh Norton to Joseph Max <=- JM> I am convinced that no JM> form of energy can do this. So what, then, is doing this travelling? JM> My answer: pure information. My magickal theory holds that pure JM> information can be exchanged between monadic entities as speeds that JM> circumvent the speed of light, and in so doing, circumvent both space Ra> JM _and_ time constraints. JN> Hmmm. As an alternative to Bell's theorem, I would offer the JN> explanation that events have to work their way "downwards" through the JN> magickal planes before manifesting on the physical level. And this JN> process takes time to occur, in physical terms. [ ... ] JN> If someone were capable of "picking up" on a particular event while it JN> was still working its way into manifestation, he would give the JN> impression of predicting the future without anything having to travel JN> backwards in time. Ra> But if one were picking up an event in process of manifesting, i.e. Ra> that has not yet happened, the message would be about a trend or Ra> probability. The trend is subject to modification and the exact form Ra> of its concretisation may be may be unforeseeable. (As TS Eliot said, Ra> betwixt thought and act falls the shadow). Some impulses do, however, Ra> ultimately manifest as intended, so some predictions can be accurate. Ra> Especially if these same predictions (or the predictor) assist the Ra> outcome. OK I've been reading this conversation for a little while now so I thought i'd put my US$0.75 in. Imagine for a second that every event in history no matter what is somehow recorded (we can discuss this topic later). Now each of these events are recorded in strength with the following constants:- * Violence of event * Magical Nature of event * Number of Persons involved * Area Where event occured * Repitition of the event The receiving of these events could seen to be affected by the following factors:- * Personal nature of event (Re: Reincarnation or fascination of particular event) * Strength of "recording" * Recentness of event * Training of "receiver" * Mental state of "receiver" * Presence of mind altering substances in system of "receiver" These sumises could be seen to be responsible for the existance of many ideas ghosts etc going FORWARD in time. What about backward?? Well though it is theoretically impossible to travel backward in time by travelling faster than the speed of light (which until the proper technology surfaces cannot be effectively proven or disproven). The idea of the mind travelling backward through time is hard to prove unless you can convince another person from a prior time to conclusively leave a message which cannot be linked to some other "rational" explanation - difficult task. Forward travel is therefore equally hard except that it may be possible to explain it as a form of event "recording" which has significant energy that it causes time to be effectively pulled towards what is seen and by a form of wish relisation a forseen event is allowed to spring to reality. In effect the action of trying to forsee the future is in fact creating the future. I'm sorry if it sounds long winded and hazy but these ideas have been buzzing round the vacuum i call a mind for a while and this is the first time I've tried to put it down in words so thanks for giving me the time ... come in to shore #99, hang-on theres no #99, ARE YOU IN TROUBLE #66? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 25 Nov 94 14:02:00 Subject: Chaos Rec'd UpdReq Hi Rose! RD> RD> Sounds close enough to the way I'm doing things now...do RD> you think you *needed* this lengthy period to prepare RD> yourself for--would it be the 'traditional Abyss-crossing' RD> through Enochian magick? But with more conventional work RD> up to that point enabling you to get that far? RD> Hard to judge... I'd say all that work was definitely necessary preparation -- for me. But I can't say with any confidence that it would be necessary for anyone else before they used the Enochian magick, or before crossing the Abyss. (The two aren't necessarily connected.) You have to understand that, due to the necessities of my original "Oath of the Path", I was forced to rely more than others would on intuition, inspiration, circumstance, and my "sense of the moment" to tell me what I should be doing at any given time. I rarely planned more than a few hours in advance -- usually it was a matter of deciding what was right for the next few minutes, and trusting in the divine to respond to my need and pull it all together eventually. The conventionality or lack thereof in my practices wasn't a consideration at all, only whether it "felt" right, and whether it expanded my realizations. Someone with a different nature and oath could very well find the Enochian magick useful at a much earlier point in their course than I did. Given people's uniqueness, I couldn't generalize beyond saying that if you try it and it doesn't feel right, lay off of it for a while before trying again. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Gaia Area: MagickNet To: Rab 27 Nov 94 02:26:00 Subject: Re: Wideranging Myths UpdReq and Rab@93:9630/0.0 dicoursed upon Re: Wideranging Myths R > Hi Gaia; This WAS NOT WRITTED BY GAIA! She gets on and abuses my machine! She'll get one of her own hopefully today!! YEA!!!! This IS Thorson's machine and post. You misunderstood. I said "no Eskimos". There are, however, R > 14 official First Nations, 'Indian' rather than 'Eskimo'; all R >Athapaskan speakers (or the more distantly related Tlingit). The R >lack of Inuit in the Yukon is fairly recent. They stopped visiting R >the north coast, (which is a relatively small strip of land), just R >this Century. About the time Euro whaling went out of fashion. R >There was a whaling station on Herschel Is. where Inuit went to R >trade. R > Who's your friend? Richard S. MacNeish. Where was s/he excavating? I've done some R >archaological work in the Yukon also. Oldest sites in Canada are R >found there, specially since the north & west regions were R >unglaciated. R > R > One anthropologist has been working on a theory that among R > R > Athapaskans there are traces of refugees who fled Genghis Khan R > R >in the 12th C. R > R > Th > Who is this? R > R > R > Ethel (Somebody) from Ottawa. I keep forgetting her surname. R > R > Perhaps Campbell. I'll have to look it up ... R > Ga> Get me references. I occasionally work with 15-16 c. Navajo R > Ga> (Athapaskan) archaeology around here. R > R > I will. But I'm in the middle of a residential move, so it will have R >to be later. Sorreee! Don't forget to check when the boxes get opened back up. R > R> the third main American group, R > R > the "AmerIndians", making up the rest of population, seem to R > R >have been here much longer, R > R > GA>(We've got 20,000 year old dates from a cave R > Ga> in southern NM) Actually this is a most conservative date, we've got dated features that are MUCH older than this. Pendejo Cave is another Richard MacNeish project. R > And more to come, no doubt. Evidence at Monte Verde in s. Chile R >seems impressive. Last I heard, Tom Dillehay suspects settlement R >there goes back much further than the 16,000y BP he's publicised. I've heard about his stratigraphically lower material. He also alludes to it in the site reports. He got so much s*** from the rest of his dept. and NSF that he now only does later stuff. I R >also like the Brazilian finds at Toca da Boqueron -- 30-45,000y. I got to meet the French excavators. I'm not sure of their assocations with the spalled pictographs and dates. They do have real hearths and tools though. I'll see a report SOMEDAY. And R >wonder what will become of Simpson's 200,000y guesses in R >California. Now this is real shakey stuff, simple flakes out of active alluvial fans, and no real features. (When Workman first began scouring the Yukon in the 60s, R >he got a geologist's reading of about 200,000y for one find. But he R >scrapped his report on that in a hurry. Much too far out. 8-] Geologists without independent dating throw around BIG ballpark figures. But then they are used to bigger, less precise, age numbers than archaeologists . All this goes to show that First Nations (I really like this Canadian derived term, wish it would catch on down here) people's were here a LOT longer than what I learned in school. Therefore their was a longer period for people to interact and exchange stories. I'm sure that such things as the rabbit in the moon is from Asia, duality could have evolved with humans. Gaia written 11/26/94 06:41 --- CmpQwk #UNREG UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718