From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Joseph Max 10 Nov 94 08:25:32 Subject: Re: CHAOS UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Well, to be honest, after some considerable thought, I may be modifying my > position on this somewhat. I would still hold that past "morphic fields" > (for lack of a better term) generated by humans who actively and > passionately evoked a godform in the past has a "residual effect" on the > present. It's hard to explain, and "residual effect" isn't reallyit, for my > own theories of magick hold that there is a Aetheric dimension tangental to > the commonly known four dimensions (3 of space, 1 of time) in which all > events/manifestations/monads/et al are interlinked everywhere/when with > each other - in all of space and in both the past AND the future. The residual effect would be like 'charging the battery' then, huh? The interlink idea I've heard before--or something similar anyway--the 'Web' or 'Net'...also sounds kinda like some of Timothy Leary's stuff, in between L25 and Virtual Reality. > the morphic field is only one part of the equation. If enough magickal > "energy" is whipped up by a magician (or group) then manifestation and > acausal effects will occur - _but_ using a sufficiently "energised"godform, > like Pan, will be _easier_ to accomplish. Tying into the "archtype" itself > (ie. Bombadil/Pan) also helps. I have a feeling that Gumby would be more > difficult than Bombadil to manifest, and Bombadil more difficult > than Pan. That all sounds sensible to me. Trying for something truly bizarre, like invoking Scooby Doo, could be a bitchin magical exercise...reminiscent in its stupid way of Crowley reciting 'On Greenland's Icy Mountain' and obtaining the desired result. > As far as Josh's point about the Xtians combined morphic fields go, why do > you think that you get thousands of Catholics seeing Virgin Maryappearences > every year? Quite true, and interesting in that I haven't heard of too many Jesus appearances...people who report visitations by Saints also seem to almost always 'see' *female* Saints. 'Miracles' don't seem to be so gender-specific: pray to Saint Jude and the impossible becomes possible, but I've never heard of anyone being visited by Jude. But Therese, Bernadette, Mary, et al., seem to love being evoked to visible form. Y'think maybe the feminine/Yin/Sakthi, being 'receptive' is more receptive to all that energy? Or is it some human need for 'Mommy' archetypes? I dunno... . > Hey, I've always held that magickal rituals should be more like rock > concerts! When I do group rites, I want black lights, strobes, smoke > machines, digital music playback, samplers, synthesizers... I've heard of people who do *private* rituals that way...special lighting, strobes, the whole nine yards. It'd be a kick in the consciousness altering synapses, fer-sher. I keep things fairly simple myself, and it's always worked that way for me...in a group setting, it might be purdy damn interesting, just as an experiment. Strictly by the bye, I've noticed whenever my physical condition slides into relapse, it's always MUCH easier for me to achieve those altered states...slip right into em almost at Will. I'm toying with the idea of getting copies of my CT Scans and MRI's and the written reports from all the lumbar punctures I've had over the past four years, and trying to analyze them, get a *real* complete picture of this 'CNS involvement' and how it might could relate to various altered states of consciousness, see if I can tweak my own bad self enough to be able to generate what I want, when I want it, and then 'banish' it when I'm done, without any outside stimuli as an assist. Having cerebro-spinal 'lesions' that seem to mimic the effects of various psychadelics and tranquilizers is, uhm, 'interesting,' but not being able to *control* it is annoying at times! > Well, I think one has to "resonate" with whatever one is seeking to work > with, regardless of how much of a morphic field has been whomped up, > and the > Hindu model doesn't do it for me - but that's only _my_ personal taste and > not a put down of anyone else's way of doing the Work. Sure...in spite of being first-generation Irish on one side of the family schrubbery, the Celtic model has never done anything for me, so I don't work with it. TETO! Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 10 Nov 94 08:50:50 Subject: Re: CHAOS UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Heh. Sure it's OK -- this is public discussion, ain't it? Don't think > it's possible to copyright a net-message... Well no...but I like to think I have good manners, which transcend such thangz as copyright notices! ;> Been wishing one could copyright one's name/bbs handle recently--apparently some ripoff Noo Age group is sending out come-on notices signed by some apocryphal broad by the name 'Rose Dawn.' Someone local received one, and asked if it was me . for the record, case anyone reading this has gotten one, nope--it ain't this particular Rose Dawn! I'm sure if I ever go into the prophet-for-profit biz, I could come up with something a bit more innovative than "Send Money--Get Bliss!" ::snicker:: > I did think about Sam as Horus...might fit. I recall one toon where he > was a knight going after dragons -- the lance is one of Horus' weapons, > and dragons are Set-beasts, if anything is. Sam *could* be spelled Samekh-Yod-Mem-final, which would give 71, meaning Thy Terror and Silence, Vision, Plenitude, and a Dove. What meaneth this? Uhm...ya got me, but it sounds interesting. I flunked Gematria though. Ever since Larry, waaaay back when, mentioned seeing Ra-Hoor-Khuit as a schoolyard bully, I've kind of associated RKH with that Rooster dude--can't think of his name at the moment. Joseph Max earlier today mentioned Gumby, who I can easily picture as a Parzival kinda dude, or in the Eddie Murphy/SNL manifestation, as a personification of Jah, or Rasta-Fari, de Lion of Judah, mahn. Gimel-Vau-Mem-Beth-Yod = 61, which = Master, Lord, Adon; Negative, Non-existent, Not; To Thee, I Myself, the belly, and Wealth. Gee, this is fun! And I hate gematria. Being green, he could also be associated with Netzach, and always accompanied by a horse, with Mars. The malleability makes me think Yesod...or water, and he does have a Mem in the middle. I haven't tried license plate Gematria yet, cept with my own car, which is most definitely The Ra-Hoor-Khuit-mobile. I hate this stuff, wonder why I'm doing it? ;> > RD> claimed to have any good results from the use of the > RD> Calls? > > I admit to total ignorance on this score. Wonder if anyone kept a record? Might be interesting to compare to some of the more well-known records... . > fact! ) But I still wonder about the effect of substituting "Satan" > for Iaida, etc. The entities seem to have a strong connection to their > creator, and attributing their existence to a Christian demon might tend > to annoy them, I'm thinking. Or, they might just decide that the > magician is invoking some other group of beings, and not bother > answering. Hmmm...they didn't seem to mind when Dee & Kelly attributed their existence to a Christian *god* though! Nor, to my admittedly VERY limited understanding, do they seem to mind when lots of modern magicians attribute their existence to deeper recesses of the individual mind. I guess the 'logical' thing to do would be to ask a satanist what, if anything, the CoS' Enochian experiments revealed. > No, sorry. It's still in an embryonic stage. And it may be one of those > things I'm never going to solve, like the "true" attributes of the > enochian letters. Seems to me that getting a good perspective on the > meta-schema would be equivalent to becoming one with the Enochian god. > And while he's popped up occasionally, I've never had any success > invoking him for my own purposes. Is it one of those 'draw your own Conclusion' thangz then? LOL. does there seem to be any recognizable pattern to the Enochian god's popping up? Or does it appear to be arbitrary, or along some pattern that you can't grasp? Nice chattin ya, as always! Love is the law, love under will. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 7 Nov 94 23:36:04 Subject: Re: chaos UpdReq -=> Yglr'th Josh Norton zrlq Rose Dawn z'qwan "Chaos"? -=> F'dzeh nyq'rhg: JN> So maybe those two would be better as embodiments of the Erisian and JN> Anterisian forces. The Hodge and the Podge, the Apple and the JN> Pentagon, etc. Apples, carrots... close enough, hmm? :) --Kai MacTane. ... "So many Nymphs, so little time." - Pan ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 7 Nov 94 23:50:06 Subject: Re: tolkien UpdReq -=> Yglr'th Josh Norton zrlq Rab z'qwan "Tolkien"? -=> F'dzeh nyq'rhg: R> The consensus is that Tolkien seems to have tuned into an ancient and R> forgotten, but distinct and still viable pantheon. JN> Hmmm. I can't recall how much Tolkein drew on previous mythologies -- JN> it's been 20 years since I took a course on his stuff. Quite a bit, according to Lin Carter. I can post up some bits from an essay he wrote on it, if you like. For example, the names of a helluva lot of his dwarves, plus Gandalf himself, come from a name-list in some Edda or other. It was listing off a bunch of warriors that were on hand at somebody's hall for some adventure. J.R.R. just lifted 'em all. He also snagged a bunch of ideas out of James Branch Cabell, an early fantasist who had *also* done a pile of research into old myths. R> Perhaps not so much the "amount" as the "quality"? JN> Well, I did pretty well with Bugs Bunny. More recently with Kimball JN> and Clarissa Kinnison (characters in a series of pulp-era science JN> fiction novels). What quality of worship, if any, do they have? I'm not sure how in the world you'd measure "quality of worship" in the first place -- is snake handling better or worse than quiet prayer? -- but I recognize names out of the Lensman series. You've been invoking them? And it's been working? Could you please give me more details? --Kai MacTane. ... Militant Evangelical Taoists: "Send money! But not to us!" ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Gaia 9 Nov 94 16:42:08 Subject: Re: witch's rune UpdReq -=> Yglr'th Gaia zrlq All z'qwan "Witch's rune"? -=> F'dzeh nyq'rhg: Ga> Greetings, everybody! I'm looking for the complete version of the Ga> "Witches' Rune", the one that has a line something like, "Darksome Ga> night and shining moon..." Anybody got it??? from the Farrars' _The_Witches'_Goddess_, appendix: Eko, eko, Azarak, Eko, eko, Zomelak, repeat Eko, eko, Cernunnos, 3 times Eko, eko, Aradia! Darksome night and shining Moon East, then South, then West, then North, Hearken to the Witches' Rune -- Here we come to call thee forth! Earth and water, air and fire, Wand and pentacle and sword, Work ye unto our desire, Hearken ye unto our word! Cords and censer, scourge and knife, Powers of the witch's blade -- Waken all ye unto life, Come ye as the carm is made! Queen of heaven, Queen of hell, Horned hunter of the night -- Lend your power unto the spell, And work our will by magic rite! In the earth and air and sea, By the light of Moon or Sun, As we do will, so mote it be. Chant the spell and it be done! Eko, eko, Azarak, Eko, eko, Zomelak, repeat Eko, eko, Cernunnos, until done Eko, eko, Aradia! (all spelling, capitalization and punctuation kept as in original) Ga> I'll trade a good chant or something! No need; even if information doesn't have a desire to be free, *I* like it that way. Enjoy. :) --Kai MacTane. ... A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle ... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Gaia Area: MagickNet To: Rab 12 Nov 94 02:23:00 Subject: Re: strange symbol UpdReq and Rab@93:9630/0.0 dicoursed upon Re: strange symbol R -=> Quoting Gaia to All <=- R > R > Ga> GAIA ASKS FOR MDB: R > Ga> Has anybody encountered the following symbol: R > Ga> \ R > Ga> \ O R > Ga> / R > Ga> / R > Ga> \ R > Ga> \ R > Ga> / R > Ga> / R > As a matter of fact my partner just mentioned today (4Nv) that R > she just realised that for the past few days when talking on R > the phone she has been pacing out a similar glyph, except that R > it looks a bit more like an old oxen yoke: R > __ R > \ R > / R > | R > \ R > __/ R >Work to be done, I assume. Together. It may also relate to the R >upcoming shift of Pluto into Sagittarius (Jan/95) after about 11 yrs R >in Scorpio. Scorpio's opposite sign is Taurus (oxen) and Sag, of R >course, is The Archer, and our glyphs could represent a yoke R >transmuting into a bow. Just a thought. R >The work has been to create potential, now we need to see the target R >(your "circle" in the distance) and learn how to shoot straight? GAIA: Rab, this is a *great* idea. I'll share it with my friend who asked, and see if he can get back to you, ok?? THANKS! Gaia written 11/11/94 09:27 --- CmpQwk #UNREG UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Merlin Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 12 Nov 94 07:14:06 Subject: Jesus UpdReq Well, Oral Roberts saw a 90' Jesus! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Douglas Mcmurry Area: MagickNet To: All 11 Nov 94 09:11:00 Subject: Apologies! UpdReq To all in PODS area 9180 ... I was checking out a new NET - TREKKER-NET to see if I wanted to carry it... and... (Oh, I got it via QWK net from my Pen & Brush NET host board with my regular mailrun) lo and behold, my QWK-NET import program imported the stuff into my message base - and the conference numbers corresponded to PODS forums from HEALING_TOUCH to PAGANSYS - So, please accept my sincerest apologies for cluttering the conferences with TREK stuff (fortunately it wasn't a big packet ;-)) - I am new to PODS and the FIDO style message programs in general, so please forgive my inexperience. I an very glad to be a part of PODS! Beannaithe Biodh! Douglas * PowerEdit 2.0 Nonne scis sibilare? Labris compostis, perfla. * PowerEdit 2.0 Nonne scis sibilare? Labris compostis, perfla. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Joseph Max 11 Nov 94 16:03:00 Subject: Chaos UpdReq JM> In a very real way, Josh, I think that information IS power. And I don't JM> mean that in the political sense, but in the magickal. JM> As I've said before, I'm an engineer, a scientist if you will, by JM> profession. And I have a pragmatic, even skeptical turn of mind. I accept JM> that there are certain laws that govern the workings of the physical JM> universe that _cannot_ be circumvented without that physical universe JM> unraveling; the speed of light, for example, or the Second Law of JM> Thermodynamics. So the "energy" metaphor when used to describe the JM> application of magickal power is, to me, severely problematic. I can't JM> describe the theory of morphic fields in any way that defines such fields as JM> being energy of any sort comparable with electromagnetic vibration. As a onetime "soft" scientist, I guess I'm more accustomed to living with unavoidable ambiguities than you electron-herders and materiel- manipulators. I agree (for other reasons than yours) that the energy-model is problematic. But it's hard to avoid since, to many (most?) of us, magickal experiences _feel_ like some sort of energy flowing around. Uranus "energy", for instance, often feels to me exactly like touching a hot alternating current line. One interesting thing is that in the one area where some sort of objective component is possible, astrology, they find that interactions of the "energies" of different planets behave as if they were wave-forms (specifically, standing-waves) of different frequencies intersecting in 3-D space. Interactions occur with greatest intensity at specific angles of intersection. And while approaching those angles, the observed effects show "peaks" and "troughs", as if the wave-forms were sometimes reinforcing each other and sometimes canceling each other out. Seems to me that if we're going to sort out these things, we have to ascribe to magickal "energies" at least three distinct aspects: -- a "force" aspect: the whatever-it-is that we perceive as power when it touches our awareness, and which sometimes behaves in ways roughly analgous to physical wave-forms or vibrations. -- a qualitative aspect: the fact that magickal "energies" feel different from each other in consistent ways and produce differing effects on our consciousness. E.g. a Jupiter "energy" produces a sense of expansion, largess, humor, paternalism, etc., in the perceiver, while Mars produces a sense of power, aggressiveness, conflict, sexual arousal, desire for physical activity, etc. -- an "information" aspect, which results in the appearance of specific knowledge in the consciousness of the experiencing being. Personally, I'm not certain that any of these have an intrinsic connection, since they needn't appear simultaneously. Lumping them all together, as we usually do, may be a mistake. JM> However, I perform Tarot readings that divine future events with (if I may JM> be allowed some immodesty) uncanny accuracy. It would be easy to imagine JM> that I am sensing "energy patterns" to accomplish this feat, but if so, then JM> said energy patterns must be travelling _backwards in time_, or in effect, JM> faster than the speed of light. I am convinced that no form of energy can do JM> this. So what, then, is doing this travelling? JM> My answer: pure information. My magickal theory holds that pure information JM> can be exchanged between monadic entities as speeds that circumvent the JM> speed of light, and in so doing, circumvent both space _and_ time JM> constraints. Hmmm. As an alternative to Bell's theorem, I would offer the explanation that events have to work their way "downwards" through the magickal planes before manifesting on the physical level. And this process takes time to occur, in physical terms. (This is observably true of the "mass" changes in ideas I was speaking of previously, and seems as true for my own internal processes.) If someone were capable of "picking up" on a particular event while it was still working its way into manifestation, he would give the impression of predicting the future without anything having to travel backwards in time. ___ X SPEED 1.30 [NR] X 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Rab Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 11 Nov 94 01:43:00 Subject: Re: Tolkien UpdReq -=> Quoting Christeos Pir to Josh Norton <=- JN> I confess that there's some instances in which I definitely hope the JN> "accumulated power" theory isn't correct. Don't think I'd care to have JN> a huge mass of Huitzilopoctli's power floating around, for instance. JN> Things could get nasty. CP> Not to mention Coatlicue, the Aztecs' answer to Kali; or Tlazolteotl, CP> "Eater of Filth," whose priests dressed in the untanned skins of CP> their sacrifices and smelled, so one priest claimed, "worse than a CP> dead dog." I don't suppose that these old American deities have anything at all to do with the current state of affairs in the US ... with its extremely high rates of violent crime, murder, & mayhem? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Josh Restivo 11 Nov 94 16:46:12 Subject: Seeking info... UpdReq -=> Josh Restivo sent a message to All on 07 Nov 94 21:29:52 <=- -=> Re: Seeking info... <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JR> I was wondering if anyone could possibly steer me in the right JR> direction (as far as adress or ANYTHING) for the Temple of Set. I have JR> some info on them and am very interested, but am having a hard time JR> (of course) finding any futher information on them. I would greatly JR> appreciate any help!! In addition to the ToS echo available on many of these BBSes, you can also contact Dr. Michael Aquino on the _Thelema_ echo. You can also contact the Temple and ask for a copy of their info letter, at: Temple of Set P.O. Box 470307 San Francisco CA 94147 Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... for Thy messenger was more terrible than the Death-star. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 12 Nov 94 10:22:58 Subject: Re: CHAOS UpdReq -=> Rose Dawn sent a message to Josh Norton on 09 Nov 94 10:04:08 <=- -=> Re: Re: CHAOS <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> Anyway, thanks...I'll try the FReq-thang! :> Except that they're not on the board. If you want, I can u/l what I've got so far onto the Arena. You want ASCII (no formatting) or WordPerfect 6.0 (DOS) (Bold, underlining, proper paragraphing, et al.)? Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... They shall change in their destruction, 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Tony Davis Area: MagickNet To: Gaia 9 Nov 94 16:55:62 Subject: Re: strange symbol UpdReq hey there... i think that's modern... someone ready to jump into a swimming pool or something. one of the olympic ideograms from last time maybe? tony 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Chris Stoudt Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 12 Nov 94 19:26:08 Subject: Re: CHAOS UpdReq -=> Quoting Rose Dawn to Josh Norton <=- RD> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. > Heh. Sure it's OK -- this is public discussion, ain't it? Don't think > it's possible to copyright a net-message... RD> RD> Well no...but I like to think I have good manners, which RD> transcend such thangz as copyright notices! ;> RD> RD> Been wishing one could copyright one's name/bbs handle RD> recently--apparently some ripoff Noo Age group is sending out come-on RD> notices signed by some apocryphal broad by the name 'Rose Dawn.' RD> Someone local received one, and asked if it was me . RD> for the record, case anyone reading this has gotten one, RD> nope--it ain't this particular Rose Dawn! I'm sure if I RD> ever go into the prophet-for-profit biz, I could come up RD> with something a bit more innovative than "Send Money--Get RD> Bliss!" ::snicker:: HERE HERE!!!! I have been using the handle "Shadow Fax" since 1983 when I started bbsing! And am bothered somewhat when I see it around! heeh... Shadow Fax ... So I missed one stupid inflection... FIREBALL me to death! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Mark Kamins Area: MagickNet To: All 12 Nov 94 07:12:08 Subject: Chaos UpdReq I have seen a lot of chatter on the topic of Chaos magic lately not only on this echo, but on several others as well. What I want to know is ... What is Chaos magick? Later... Mark ... [----========<<<< THIS TAGLINE SPACE FOR RENT! >>>>========----] 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718