From: RAINLAKE Area: MagickNet To: JOSEPH MAX 19 Sep 94 03:20:52 Subject: your post UpdReq Thanks for replying in depth. You do seem to have misunderstood a good deal of what I said...and if you've gotten the impression somehow that I'm "confused" about the difference between magick and religion (I didn't say or imply they're the same--more when I can get back into your prior post and supply context) or that I think all one has to do to make magick is say the right words/make the right moves (which is NOwhere close to what I wrote in my post to you), you definitely haven't been reading my posts elsewhere on PODS and on VampNet. But you do make some interesting points, and I'd like to reply. Problem is, I'm seriously ill, and simply can't edit and reply to all of such a lengthy post (they do tend to run that way in this echo, don't they!) in one evening. So you're likely to get it in chunks, over several days. It'd be helpful if you'd let me reply to all of it before you write back. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: MagickNet To: VALKYRIE 17 Sep 94 08:50:00 Subject: Re: SIGILS UpdReq -=> Quoting Valkyrie to Joseph Max <=- JM> The whole purpose of "encoding" is to prevent the conscious mind from JM> directly precieving the meaning of the sigil at the point of implanting JM> it into the subconscious. The idea is to confuse the _conscious_ mind, JM> not the subconscious. Va> This is one area that I might disagree with the process that you are Va> suggesting. I would use the implanting into the subconscious in some Va> cases, but the actual writing of a runic formula, particularly if the Va> rune is chanted or intoned at the same time is to bring the total Va> being into integration and focus. Part of runic magic is also the Va> scraping off or burning of runes or bind-runes when the project has Va> been completed...that would imply a conscious awareness and evaluation Va> at times. At times, yes; as I said in another post, at many points along the way the conscious mind must be part of the process. Conceiving the Statement of Intent is certainly one, and creating the sigil itself. However, for any magickal process to commence the subconscious mind must come into play. Chanting and intoning are processes by which subconscious implantation can be achieved. I hold that if you look hard enough you will find that every magical process has this component. It is not immediately obvious for obvious reasons - it is _supposed_ to be subliminal, so many (most?) practitioners don't even realize that it's part of the process they are performing. JM> I usually go through several JM> versions before I decide I like the "look and feel" of the sigil -- JM> THAT is what's most important. Va> At this point it would also suggest other "images" begin to emerge. I Va> think that regardless of how intellectual or conscious the process the Va> final version should be intuitively satisfying as well...something Va> like a poem that is technically "perfect" but also works on other Va> levels. Illustrating once again the powerful subconscious component that must exist for magic to be effective. ... "Say the secret word & be assimilated." Groucho of Borg ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: JOSEPH MAX Area: MagickNet To: EAGLESTAR 17 Sep 94 08:50:00 Subject: Re: MONEY MAGICK UpdReq -=> Quoting Eaglestar to All <=- Ea> Would someone please post a spell, or ritual that Ea> they have used successfully, to gain some money? The Adoration of Money A Rite of Blue Magick Background: Most occult practitioners have a jaundiced attitude toward money. It is seen as "the root of all evil", regardless of how much good it would bring to the persons life or how desperately it is needed. To be a selfish miser is certainly a "bad" thing, as is any selfish attitude of wantoness and desperation. But a "magician" who can't afford to eat properly can hardly be considered an "adept". It has been correctly observed that one will only have as much financial success as one thinks one deserves. Money in our modern age has taken on all of the attributes of a spiritual being. It is mostly invisible, existing only as blips on a screen or bits in a data stream. It has it's likes and dislikes as any spiritual being has. It perfers to associate and bring it's blessings to those who show it respect and cater to it's ways. Certain "rituals" and "cerimonial dress" are condusive to attracting money (the three piece suit seems to be one of it's most effective ritual "robes"!) The Money spirit will behave toward you as you behave toward it. Despise it, belittle it, denigrate it to a low level in your life at it will certainly flee from you. Worship it, exalt it, show it proper respect and learn its ways and it will naturally flow toward you. Above all the money spirit likes to move. It seems to have taken on the spirit of Elemental Air rather than Earth in the modern age - as they say, the current IS changing. It is important when doing this working to provide "mundane" pathways by which money can reach you. It does very little good to wish for a pot of gold or cast spells to win lotteries. Gambling is far to "rigged" in the favor of the "house" to be much effected by magical means - the odds are to great for the gentle "push" of magick to overcome in most cases. Quite likely, if one was a powerful enough mage to influence roulette wheels one would not _need_ to! So having a business venture or investment or job search or _something_ provided by which the money can reach you is very important. The Rite: Purpose: This is a ritual designed to promote finacial success in a general way. It is not intended to bring about income in a specific way, nor will it result in piles of cash materializing on your altar. The primary use of this rite is to alter one's subconscious attitude toward money, and allow the emergence of the celebrant(s) into the state of "Money Consciousness". Materials: A handful of coins, a blue sack, blue and/or green candles, Jupiterian incense. Preperation: Each participant (this can be a solo our group working) should prepare a "money talisman" to consecrate as a charm to carry on oneself as a help to draw Money spirits. This can be a special coin, a watch fob, a money clip, or even a circular disk on which is drawn the symbol of Jupiter, the astrological godform which presides over matters of luck and success. Participants should dress in either blue robes decorated with gold, or in some sort of "dress for success" manner. A three-piece suit would not be incorrect. The wearing of "power ties", gold watch fobs, or other outer trappings of "financial success" is also appropriate. Procedure: 0) The candles and incense are lit on the altar, on which are also placed the talismans to be consecrated. 1) The temple space is consecrated and sealed by whatever method desired: circle casting, salute to the quarters, Vortex Rite, LBRP, etc. 2) The Statement of Intent is pronounced by the participants: "It is our Will to consecrate (a) talisman(s) to draw the Spirit of Money into my/our live(s) and make my/ourselves (a) suitable vessel for Money Consciousness!" 3) The blue sack is taken from the altar and each participant places a hand full of coins into it. The Main Operator then stands at each quarter and shakes the sack four times, thereby calling to the Money spirits with the sound they love most. 4) The Main Operator then begins the Invocation of the Money Gods, to be echoed line by line by other participants: "We call upon the Spirits of Money, in the name of Jupiter To come forth and manifest in our lives! For we know the nature of Money has changed, From land to gold to paper to plastic to pure information. Money has become like unto Air, not Earth; Like Air, it must move to be manifest; If it is hoarded it shall slowly die. But when Money moves, it is making love; Make love to us, oh Money! We shall be your lovers! We shall respect you, move you, share you, invest in you! Come to us, oh Money! And we, your lovers, shall give you life! 5) The sack is then passed around again, and each participant places in it the money talisman to be consecrated. When all have done so, the M.O. takes the sack and begins to shake it rythmically, like a rattle, while the participants chant together the Incantation, repeating it as much as needed until a trance like state is achieved: "I love Money and Money loves me! I need Money and Money needs me! I deserve Money and Money deserves me!" (This part of the Rite harks back to the practice of Shamanism, so if any are totally unfamiliar with the concepts of trance chanting and drumming, some study of the practice may be beneficial.) 7) At the climax of the chanting the M.O. raises the sack on high and rattles it forcefully, calling out "Money, we love you! Come to us and stay!" 8) The sack is passed around once again, and each participant retrieves their talisman. (The coins should be removed and given to either charity or the homeless, as a sacrifice and also in keeping with the concept of "Money in motion".) 9) Temple is closed and banished appropriately The talismans should be carried on their person, especially when engaged in any potential money making activity. ... Cthulhu saves our souls and redeems them for valuable coupons later. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718