From: Valkyrie Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 16 Sep 94 01:54:06 Subject: Positive UpdReq PH>Mikey - PH>OK, now I get it - you were freaking out in New Age because of a post PH>I responded to in Magicknet. PH>Hey, asshole, if you are going to whip out "writer's guidelines" for PH>your projected magazine, and then get into namecalling (and you might PH>want to learn how to handle your mailer better, so your invective PH>lands in the right echo next time) and getting on your fucking high PH>horse about the Middle Pillar etc. etc. when someone (and a sometime PH>paid writer bucko) asks what the fuck you mean by positive - PH>dimwit does not make it as a valid clarification. PH>So what the fuck DO you mean by positive, numskull? Paul, You were one of the first people that I remembered from when I began posting to PODS as one of the more level-headed and rational people on the system. Recently you made some remarks directed a flame wars which were for the most part fair and to the point. None of the postings in that series even came close to the invectives that you lavished on this person, most of which I sympathize with as far as dealing with editors and publishers, particularly ones that don't know what they want but invite general inquiries anyway, but it doesn't reflect the person that I've come to know over the last year and a half. Why not just pass the guy's address to _Writer's Digest_, or a couple of those journals that specialize in beginning writers and call it even? I'm sure he'll take a much more realistic look at life when every idiot with a stamp starts sending him recipes, mystery stories, sci-fi and who knows what else on the off-chance he'll publish it regardless of what he outlines his publication requirements as being. You might even want to forward his enquiry into a few of the writer's echoes...and presto...he'll have more "positive" material to choose from... Ves Heil, ~V Internet: valkyrie@eskimo.com * SLMR 2.1a * Uh...is this a tagline? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Joseph Max 16 Sep 94 15:45:00 Subject: Re: sigils UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Joseph Max zwan Rainlake ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Re: sigils, n'qah? Ra> Yes, it was. But may I add that many of us prefer to cast a magickal Ra> phrase, regardless of the method used to internalize it, not as a wish Ra> but as something that has already happened? Not I WISH TO BE WELL, for Ra> instance, but I AM NOW PERFECTLY WELL. That way the subconscious gets Ra> "programmed" to be in the state desired, not just to intensify the Ra> already-existing wish for it. JM> I think the operant reason for using a "wished-for" format in the JM> Statement is that for some people, trying to implant a declaration such JM> as what you suggest might find itself at odds with the JM> subconsciousness's image of itself at the time, and therefore be JM> "rejected". If I _am_ sick, and I try to convince my subconscious mind JM> that I'm _not_ in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, it JM> might render the implantation ineffective. I sometimes have tha problem myself. OTOH, Rainlake's comments about "intensify[ing] the already-existing wish for [whatever result]" are also on-target. My usual solution is to do something like "I am healing. In a few days, I will be perfectly healthy" and *see* the cells getting stronger. Though "I _will_be_ healthy," as a projection of a future state, doesn't always work too well for the subconscious mind, it does sort of "seed" the conscious, while the _process_ and _action_ of healing at the current time *does* impress the subconscious. Naturally, this can be followed a few days later by "I *am* healthy," because by then it should be true. Ra> Also, many would disagree that the conscious mind's help Ra> short-circuits magick. That hasn't been my experience, or that of most Ra> successful magickmakers I know. JM> Would you go so far as to say that being consciously _obsessed_ with JM> deriving results from a magickal working is not a hinderance? In my IME, it's an all-or-nothing proposition: you can either do a ritual that, at least for an instant, completely abolishes the con- scious mind (including any lust for results that it may bear), -=or=- you can do one that intensifies the lust for results to the point where it COMPLETELY dominates the consciousness, to the point where you can't even experience the lust, because there isn't enough of your consciousness left over to record the experience. (I am of the opinion that the difference between these two states may well be solely semantic. :) Either way, dropping the consciousness to 0% of your "current self-hood" or raising it and its lust to 100% of same, seems to work (though it's d*mn hard for most people to work the second way without sputtering out at around 95% of total lust, thus crashing the spell). JM> Are you saying that by someone can simply learn the "correct" JM> incantations and light the "correct" color of candles and chant the JM> words in the "correct" order and derive magickal results? Is conscious, JM> deliberate action all there is to it? I think not... I don't see how you yielded this from Rainlake's statement, which was disagreement that the conscious mind short-circuits magick. JM> If your assessment is absolutely correct, then method actors should be JM> the most powerful sorcerers in the universe! Actually, they *do* make deep-level changes in their psyches on a regular basis, which is pretty heavy stuff. The fact that tese changes are temporary (at least when done right) doesn't diminish their force or the impressiveness of the feat (indeed, in a way, it makes the feat a bit *more* impressive!). JM> Art and a Science. Some (most?) practitioners tend to make a religion JM> out of it, but I don't think it's necessary. "Magick" and "Mysticism" JM> are _not_ the same thing! I'm with you on that one! :) --Kai MacTane. ... "Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Joseph Max 16 Sep 94 16:00:02 Subject: Re: money magick UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Joseph Max zwan Rose Dawn ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Re: money magick, n'qah? JM> The only problem I have with emphasis on "good practice" in regards to JM> people newly exploring magick is that some "teachers" are hung-up on JM> the idea that beginners should _study_ themselves to death before JM> actually _trying_ any magickal working. I do think they should do *some* study. One thing I've noticed in my own development and others' is that if you're pushed into it too fast, you wind up A) getting a shoddy education, especially a shoddy grasp on how to make certain extremely-important subtle distinc- tions, like that between internal psychological workings and actual astral journeys, and B) you submerge and ignore doubts about the reality of what you're doing and learning, rather than facing and dealing with them. JM> This is crap. It's like trying JM> to teach someone to swim by making them study books on swimming and JM> _watch_ "expert" swimmers in a pool! There is only one way to learn to JM> swim, and it's the same with magick -- jump in and _do it!_ Yes, absolutely. But reading a book or two first certainly won't hurt (if it's a good book). The only harm I see in study (at least for those with the discernment to tell crap from useful info) is that it can be a way of procrastinating yourself out of actually working. Other than that, though, it is useful. --Kai MacTane. ... This message was cruelly tested on small, furry animals. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kai Mactane Area: MagickNet To: Joseph Max 16 Sep 94 16:02:04 Subject: Re: money magick UpdReq -> Ygr'th na Joseph Max zwan Kai Mactane ngah'wlaq -> r'hylth Re: money magick, n'qah? JM> I'm referring more to the ones who spend countless JM> hours/days/months/years trying to decide just what the One And Only JM> True Way of the Great Invisible White Brotherhood of Secret Chief JM> Ascended Masters (Inc.) _really_ meant by "the dust of the one real and JM> authentic black stone of the ancient druidic philosphers, according to JM> the (buttered) Scone Manuscripts, numbers 327.666 to 723.999, JM> Dust-Covered British Museum Archives Room 23, shelf 7... This was hilarious!!! :) --Kai MacTane. ... I love you, you love me, let's hang Barney from a tree... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Paul Hume 17 Sep 94 00:31:58 Subject: Positive UpdReq -=> Paul Hume sent a message to Mike Ruiz on 16 Sep 94 03:38:29 <=- -=> Re: Positive <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. PH> Mikey - PH> OK, now I get it - you were freaking out in New Age because of a post PH> I responded to in Magicknet. Just to jog your memory, this is the same cretin that earned an early berth in my twit filter about a year ago... Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... thou hast plastered thy cheeks with ivory enamels. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: RAINLAKE Area: MagickNet To: ADAMAH 15 Sep 94 02:15:08 Subject: Question UpdReq -> I have a very serious question..... Doesd anyone know of a spell etc. -> me out here? The p[roblem I have is my ex is planning on taking my ki -> with her, and yes, she has "legal" custody but they (The kids don't w -> back by their own admission.) I want to call all on every resource -> possible..... You may already understand and buy what I'm about to say, and you also may get completely opposite answers here (to each h/er own path). But I'm Wiccan, and most of us believe magick done to control another person, especially to coerce h/er for your own or a loved one's gain into an action you know s/he doesn't want to take, is unethical. (Think how you'd feel if someone did it to YOU. Dunno about you, but I like my free will not to be abridged by others, especially by covert means.) So is it possible your best option isn't spellworking to change your wife's mind but (achingly hard as I know this can be, especially where kids are involved) turning the situation over to your deities in trust, asking that what's best for the kids happen, no matter what that is? They really do answer that sort of request. And a ritual to that end may give you the peace YOU need right now...which isn't a bad result, y'know? Now THERE'S a spell you can do: put your kids' pictures on the altar, surrounded with protective herbs. Light a candle; picture it as the Goddess's light, and draw that light into the herbs, surrounding your kids with it. Don't visualize them being walled off from Mom and coming with you...that's (IMH and widely shared O) back on shaky ethical ground, unless you have reason to think she's really dangerous to them. (I don't need details). Just surround them with safety and peace NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. Good luck...and meanwhile, make sure you take care of YOU. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Colleen Pearson Area: MagickNet To: Morgan Le Fey 18 Sep 94 11:05:04 Subject: FAMILIARS UpdReq On 09-12-94 Morgan Le Fey wrote to COLLEEN PEARSON... ML> You mean if I try to live as Morgan Le Fey/Morgana? I am not ML> sure. Just have always been drawn to the name since childhood and am ML> more comfortable with it than my given name. Do you know of any ML> reading ML> material that has good information on Morgana/Morgan Le Fey? Thanks! ML> ML> Bright blessings, ML> ML> Morgan The most information about her in one place is Mists of Avalon, I did a *lot* of meditation on her afterwards and found that the desc in the book is very close to how she is, its a long book but hopefully you would enjoy it ;) Misty --- * OFFLINE 1.58 * (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the friggin thing 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718