From: Rusty Wallace Area: MagickNet To: Morgan Le Fey 10 Jun 94 22:05:12 Subject: RE: RE: FAMILIARS UpdReq MLF> too? Because in my experience it is the Christians who will tell you MLF> that animals don't have souls and therefore when the family pet dies it MLF> isn't going to heaven... Bull sh!t! I hope that when I go to Valhalla MLF> that I will see all of my pets that have passed on before me. How can divinity be in everything and a not a soul? When my 9th grade bible teacher taught that cats didn't have souls, that was just confirmation of my original belief - she was ignorant at best. Having grown up believing that the divine spark is at the root of creation(s) on reservations out West, the idea that an adult could seriously say that the human being was the only soul capable of staying integrated after death was foolish. Some do merge into the great divine but there are enough cases of "spirit dogs" surviving. And when divine touches divine, the lesser gains strength from us while gain closeness to the original source from them. IMHO, of course! Wassail! Rusty Wallace 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Dan Stutzbach Area: MagickNet To: Ace Lightning 10 Jun 94 17:16:50 Subject: High Off Drugs UpdReq > Ace Lightning smurfed this message to Dan Stutzbach AL> It makes me very angry that our society doesn't prepare young people AL> for the possibility of spontaneously altered states of consciousness. AL> If you trance, or see visions, or suddenly find yourself in a different AL> mode of perception, the only explanation our society provides is AL> *illness*. You're hallucinating, you're delusional, you're "going AL> crazy", or else you're delirious or something from a physical illness. well, for me I tend to "feel" things when I'm having some profound emotional experience (like watching Star Wars or something ), so I really couldn't think I was going mad, because it wasn't THAT random. More random stuff happened later, but I by then I was more prepared. ;) AL> There are tribal societies where trance, visions, dreams, etc., are AL> taken just as seriously as "ordinary" consciousness. Children are AL> taught from a very early age how to discriminate among the different AL> states and how to control them. This way, they don't think they're AL> losing their minds when they find themselves in an altered state. I AL> wish our culture were as flexible! heh.. our culture IS flexible, provided you work in advertising. ;) hmm.. actually, you gotta figure I grew up in a universe with the Force, where you didn't fall until you relized you weren't standing on anything, and where green-bloody logicians were boldly going where no man had gone before. :) AL> Your "from" line had your "real" name on it...did you change it on AL> purpose? umm.. no.. my sysop must be screwing with the settings again... I'll go yell at him. ;) -- Agthorr ... Sure it's art, but is it fun? 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Gwathorn Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 12 Jun 94 12:25:08 Subject: Re: tolkein circle UpdReq -=> On 06-07-94 12:11 I heard Josh Norton speculating with Gwathorn <=- JN> Sorry for the delay replying -- our bbs is screwed up again. Not a problem, JN> "savior", is a higher form of god since it's name adds the letter of JN> Spirit to the letters of the elements. Thanks, I missed the symbolism JN> And the children are themselves "saviors" since the JN> final defeat of the evil Eddorians could not be accomplished until JN> they were on the scene. So are you asserting that the Qliphoth is represented by the Eddorians? GWathorn. ... Blame, by definition never lands in the right place. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Cyberpuck 11 Jun 94 16:28:00 Subject: Fantasy Circles UpdReq > I'd really like to know more about Freya's Folk. > Have you a contact address (electronic and/or snail)? Owen@autodesk.com is a member. Here is their snail mail address: Freya's Folk; 537 Jones St #165; San Francisco, CA 94102 Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Mindrimmer 11 Jun 94 16:29:00 Subject: Definitions UpdReq For things Norse, a good easy-to-find reference is _Teutonic Religion_ by Kveldulf Gundarsson. A more difficult to find is the recently published _Our Troth_ editted by Kveldulf but written by members of the Ring of Troth and some other Asatruar. That one has to be ordered from the Ring itself. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson Internet:mimir@io.com 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Paul Seymour Area: MagickNet To: All 12 Jun 94 16:22:44 Subject: Update UpdReq Witches Against Religious Discrimination (W.A.R.D.) Colorado State Chapter Paul G. Seymour, Director P.O. Box 41952 Colorado Springs, CO 80949-9152 (719) 380-7885 "Midsummer Working" -- an Update 06-12-1994 At the end of May 1994, we took action to call for community support for religous and cultural plurality and diversity. This call was prompted by published accounts of the imminent arrival of the Coalition On Revival (COR) and reports to us from the community that Pat Robertson was coming to Colorado Springs with the Christian Coalition to "rally the troops". To our perceptions, the confluence of the two events could create a situation with volatile potential. With little time to respond, we acted. Subsequent research into the situation by a large number of Colorado Springs area citizens and organizations has established that: 1) COR has not gained the ability to establish it's "Kingdom College" in the Colorado Springs area this fiscal year; 2) Transcript searches of the "700 Club" television broadcast, the alleged source of Mr. Robertson's statement, have failed to substantiate the allegation. Further efforts to contact the Robertson organization are being pursued to make final disposition of this issue. This outcome is considered very desirable by W.A.R.D. and other organizations in the Springs region. Life could go on as normal in the Springs. Or could it? Many of us now have a heightened awareness of the potential for confrontation in our community. Many of us in the community feel that the call for a community expression of fellowship and acceptance via prayer, meditation, energy raising or ritual is still valid and necessary. Many of us have experienced problems that can be traced directly to some people's intolerant or bigioted viewpoints. We believe that genuine efforts to sponsor community and tolerence within the Springs region will help avert the spread of these attitudes. Much like many sicknesses, if this is caught early enough, it can be treated without invasive measures. The specific text quoted from the original message calling for community efforts follows: "Our request: each evening at 9:00 p.m. Mountain Daylight Time on June 19th through June 23rd (0300 GMT - 20 JUN through 24 JUN) send us your thoughts, prayers, well wishes, energies to promote love in the hearts of all people in Colorado Springs. Send energies to defend the principles of plurality and religious diversity. Send energies to heal the hatred in the hearts of those who would place their power over us. Send energies to foster community and family in our city." This call for joint effort is a call to all members of the community, and in a larger sense, a call to the world. Let's put down our preconceptions and prejudices, damp down our fears and our conditioning. We must become aware of our community as a community of people. Let's make the effort to become educated about the "other" groups that we have been taught to fear or even hate. An effort to educate and understand each other can result in many outcomes, the worst of which is that we can at least come to "know thy enemy". A better result would be for us to learn to accept and tolerate each other, without fear or prejudice. This is a noble effort. Make the effort. Shed those de-humanizing preconceptions. Learn what your neighbor, and your neighbor's neighbor value and believe. To quote again from the original message text: "We have tried this on small scale with just twenty people in a strictly local ceremony. The effects were dramatic. We now ask the world to join us. Perhaps this healing will spread throughout the world. Lend us your Will!" Our continuing mission: We believe in religious diversity; We believe that all should be free to practice as their path calls; We believe that religious discrimination has no place in our world. At one time Colorado and Colorado Springs was truly the "Garden of the Gods", ALL Gods were welcome here as well as their worshippers! Colorado has been a national leader in its preservation and guarantees for Cultural and Religious Freedoms and Diversity. Now a small but vocal minority of people wish to bring a divisive spirit of petty contention and intolerance to our community. This minority would promote change to a single life view, denying all others as invalid. Our way does not allow for confrontation in any respect. We cannot endorse coercion, be it mental, physical or spiritual. We are dedicated to the return of the original beauty, via promotion of Frienship, Morality and Brotherly Love between ALL men and women of ALL Paths; Mental, Physical and Spiritual! 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Valkyrie Area: MagickNet To: Gwenny The Pooh 13 Jun 94 09:24:06 Subject: Fantasy Circles UpdReq GTP>While bumping down stairs, Gwenny the Pooh and Ace Lightning were overheard saying: GTP> AL> Why? Did you think I was talking about something "suggestive"? Moi??!! GTP>Of course not!! How silly of me ..... Hi! Have you been getting any of the messages posted in here since I called you? It would seem that there's been a break in the feed on some of the echoes and not all of my messages have been making the full rounds. Ves Heill, V * SLMR 2.1a * [Wynn]...to him who himself has power and blessedness... 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Valkyrie Area: MagickNet To: Ace Lightning 13 Jun 94 09:28:08 Subject: High Off Drugs UpdReq AL>It makes me very angry that our society doesn't prepare young people for AL>the possibility of spontaneously altered states of consciousness. If you AL>trance, or see visions, or suddenly find yourself in a different mode of AL>perception, the only explanation our society provides is *illness*. AL>You're hallucinating, you're delusional, you're "going crazy", or else AL>you're delirious or something from a physical illness. AL>There are tribal societies where trance, visions, dreams, etc., are AL>taken just as seriously as "ordinary" consciousness. Children are taught AL>from a very early age how to discriminate among the different states and AL>how to control them. This way, they don't think they're losing their AL>minds when they find themselves in an altered state. I wish our culture AL>were as flexible! These are excellent points. Having gone through the experience myself I can agree with you completely. I hope you don't mind but I'm forwarding this message to Shaman's Union. If you can get that echo why not join us there? Ves Heil, V * SLMR 2.1a * [Torch]...known by its fire, it is clear and bright 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718