From: Ace Lightning Area: MagickNet To: Paul Busby 24 Aug 93 20:47:44 Subject: East Village UpdReq Boy, am I ever getting mail from people correcting me about my limited knowledge of NYC!!! I'm living in Central Joisey...that's excuse enough. ;-) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Cynan Of Clehangar Area: MagickNet To: Salgamma 24 Aug 93 15:26:00 Subject: Re: New Echo Proposal UpdReq I have somewhat of an insight upon the future, I believe. I have noticed not only a great increase in the activity of the Sidhe, but have also had visions of an apocalyptic struggle. Everything is coming to a cusp, in my view; look even at the mundane happenings in the world. Violence and horror are growing more and more widespread. I know that in Denver this summer, for almost a month straight now, an innocent has been killed in gang crossfire EVERY NIGHT. At least in my opinion, this could not be without there being some much greater disturbance which is causing everything to come together. Maybe the earth has merely grown dissatisfied, and has decided that it is time for a change. If this is the case, then the battle will be fought between those of the earth and those who exploit it... These are my thoughts. They may be wildly inaccurate, but I do believe that there is something to the predictions of a great change... -Cynan ... O, for a muse of fire... that would ascend, the brightest heavens.... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Milamber 25 Aug 93 10:35:54 Subject: looking for... UpdReq Milamber - Rowan probably will see your post here on Magick, but if your sysop carries the Wicca echo as well, that is your best bet as she is co-moderator of that echo. Regards, Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: N'chaka Woundhealer Area: MagickNet To: Milamber 25 Aug 93 06:34:00 Subject: Re: Looking For... UpdReq -=> Quoting Milamber to All <=- Mi> hello all, Im Milamber and I'm a seeker with heavy pagan leanings. Im Mi> looking for a net-that a friend of mine is active on. She goes by Mi> Rowan Moonstone and lives somewhere in Colorado. does anybody know if Mi> she is active here? Milamber, Rowan is very active on the boards. I have no doubt that by the time this gets back to you she will have also. If nothing else, post on PAGANCHAT or PAGAN, she'll get the message. N'Chaka ... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 25 Aug 93 00:36:46 Subject: Re: ELVIS CHRIST? UpdReq 93! RD> It showed up just fine here, darlin'. You even had me RD> convinced, until I realized the folly of my ways, RD> although the Qabalistic differences in the two RD> spellings of his middle name are interesting...however, wait! wait! i still don't know what his middle name is! RD> I've seen the Light and his name is Costello, not RD> Presley! *Red* shoes, not blue suede! And the Angels RD> want to wear them...much more convincing than a demand RD> that they simply not be 'stepped on.' ;> Costello! surely you must be jesting! (and after all that evidence i had... ) ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Donald C. Ives 25 Aug 93 00:39:58 Subject: Re: Elvis the savior UpdReq 93 donald! KB> uh-oh---do you mean that your mother is married KB> to my chihuahua? (my KB> dog is actually the REAL elvis). but, really, getting back to your KB> question---i don't know, are you the son of the ummm...i think you better see rakshasa's reply to this one! (is this thread getting out there or what?!!) 93, ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Donald C. Ives 25 Aug 93 00:42:28 Subject: Re: Elvis Christ II UpdReq 93 donald, i'm in line noise hell, so i don't know what this note will lol look like to you. (wait, maybe i'm speaking in tongues). i think elvis would like your plans for his mororcycle. arrrggghhhh line noise hell!!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Commander Barbarella Area: MagickNet To: Kat 23 Aug 93 00:35:08 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq Kat has been charged with the crime of consorting with Kettlingurr. The evidence: Ka> The long and the short of this, Ket. Is that we both share Ka> equal responsiblity for it having hit homestead. Karmic debt? Ka> Why? There was no way that wecould have foreseen what was going Ka> to happen. Or that it would be as devastating as it was. Beside Ka> that this storm was going to hit somewhere. Isn't that a little like saying "I didn't mean for the baby to drown, I only left the bathroom for a minute. How was I to know what was going to happen?" How do you know that the storm was going to hit? If left alone, could it not have followed the path of other hurricanes and skirt the coast and go back out to sea to die peacefully? Note that I don't blame you for what you did. I tracked that hurricane and I know full well, that it couldn't have turned that sharply south by the doings of just one (or even two) individuals. There were many more that were doing the same thing. My exception to this whole thing is the Karmic debt issue. Barb 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Frater Xavaaq 21 Aug 93 11:22:36 Subject: Re: MILO UpdReq > I did a back read as far as this system I am on will go.. and could > not find anything written by him that was any much different from > many other messages Ive read from other individuals. I have to admit I concur with you there... I may have thought some of his messages went above and beyond the call of stupidity, but I could say that about many who post here. (Including, on occasion, myself). > All I got a sense of, was that he managed to push the right buttons > aon a few individuals. > > Perhaps the pertinent noted have been zapped from the system I log > in on. > > Im certain he was made 'read only' because he followed a very left > hand path... I mean it would be the hieght of hipocracy My feeling is that the people who took his rantings seriously (to the extent of doling out sanctimonious warnings about Karma and threats of "magical intervention") were at least as much at fault as he was. Of course, there are many people whose theology derives from _Star Wars_ and the _Dr. Strange_ comic book series. They take great pleasure in "saving the world" from various "black magicians." (This includes many people who should know better; check the history of the Golden Dawn for more details). I'm sure that there are many people walking around patting themselves on the back as we speak, secure in the knowledge that they saved the midwest from further flooding thanks to their powers as Great White Magicians. Since they are presumably smarter than Milo and keep quiet about their delusions, we may have heard the last of this. I think putting Milo on "read only" was Farrell's only option. The whole thread was really beginning to take over the echo... and not to the benefit of anyone concerned. Hopefully Milo can be returned to participate here when everyone has cooled down... although considering the uncharitable reception he received from many who proudly proclaim their committment to "the Forces of Good," I doubt he will. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Farrell Mcgovern 21 Aug 93 11:36:04 Subject: Re: MILO UpdReq > He basically claiming to be causing all the foul weather in the > mid-west in an attempt to try and kill his ex-wife. It was this that > I took exception to. I am not a "Bunnies and Light" type, but when > someone announces they are trying (no matter if they have the > ability or not) that they are trying to kill someone in a manor that > is also causing harm to millions of others...that is when it is time > to remove them...for either they are increadably stupid, or > increadably dangerous. I have to admit that you have a valid point there. My personal feeling was that I was hard-pressed to find the greater fool... the man who claimed he was causing flooding in the Midwest and earthquakes in Japan, or those who took him seriously. (I'm surprised that more people didn't come to the conclusion, "This guy's a moron and not worth wasting time on"). Still, I think you made the right decision... the whole controversy had become rather tiresome and was eating an inordinate amount of echo space. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Farrell Mcgovern 21 Aug 93 11:42:22 Subject: Re: RELIGIOUS FREEDOM 1 UpdReq > Just to let you know, I am monitoring this exchange...and if > apologies are warrented, I will press for them. I will have to see > what the response to your post is. From what I see, Airmid made a valid point concerning the use of generalizations. She did not do so in a discourteous or abrupt manner (indeed, I don't think I've ever seen a discourteous or abrupt post from Airmid). In response she has been subjected to a number of personal attacks from a person who has _still_ not admitted that her generalization ("no Traditional Native American would abuse a child") is logically and factually untenable. (Not to mention that it buys into the old "Noble Savage" theory which holds that Native Americans/African Tribesmen/Bedouin Nomads/etc. are somehow incapable of performing immoral acts; a conclusion which has pretty much been disproven by just about any anthropological authority you care to name). I would say at this point apologies are in order... and that Airmid's behavior has been nothing but exemplary in dealing with the slurs thrown at her by her opponent, who has as of yet shown no familiarity with the rules of rhetoric, logical discourse, or anything except blatant and badly-written appeals to emotion. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paladin Area: MagickNet To: Titus Vandessel 23 Aug 93 08:35:00 Subject: THAT tome Rec'd UpdReq TV> PA=The Avon Necronomicon was hoax perpetrated by Herman Slater & a TV> PA=bunch of his cronies from Magickal Childe. The mysterious Simon TV> Herman had nothing to do with the Avon Necro. Simon was a TV> pseudonym for one Peter Levenda. I've gotten this from two TV> sources I trust very much -- one of them being Levenda's TV> lover at the time he was compiling the Necro. Hmm, I sincerely doubt that Levenda was the author of the Avon Necro. On another network, several knowledgeable users [including several who were long time acquaintances of Herman & Peter] & myself took Levenda to task, point by point, error by error, flaw by flaw & book by book in the bibliography over the course of several months. An author [and I speak from experience here] has a much more intimate knowledge of their work than Levenda showed. While I'm sure Peter "helped" put the Necro together his ignorance of certain references in the necro & books in the bibliography showed that he wasn't the author. And although he claimed a thorough of Crowley & Thelema I found his actual knowledge sadly lacking. I also corresponded with Levenda for some time by snail mail. His letters were unique to say the least. In between the vain, egocentric, paranoid, diatribes and disconnected discourses there were flashes of insight. And his Yiddish is fair. :-) From reading his letters I can easily see how Peter could lead others to believe he was the author of the Necro and although he worked for Herman and, even spied for Herman, Peter Levenda isn't the "Simon" of Necro fame. Mon 08-23-1993 09:18:01 Paladin * RM 1.0 B0005 * Look here brother, who you jivin' with that cosmic debris 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 25 Aug 93 03:39:28 Subject: Re: THAT TOME UpdReq 93 rakshasa! > Good point, eloquently stated. But what does that make Coyote, then? > The > Fool who has his eyes on the spirit and falls over a cliff as a > result? R> I suppose you could come up with a fairly R> interesting "Warner Brothers Tarot Deck." The Coyote R> could be the Fool, with Bugs as the Magus. And of hey, have you seen the alice in wonderland tarot deck? it's great! the caterpillar (with hooka) is the hierophant, alice is the priestess (of course), tweedle dee and tweedle dum are the lovers, etc. it's one of my favorite decks. one of the few decks i would actually ever do a reading with. (i collect decks, but pretty much only read with 2 or 3 of them. though, i would read using the alice in wonderland deck. i find it to be pretty cabalistically correct.) 93, ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 24 Aug 93 23:39:00 Subject: THAT TOME Rec'd UpdReq > In my opinion, old aeon structure is just old aeon structure. I sense a > new engine coalescing, something hitherto unknown in terms of structure. > Something less testosterone-laden. If and when such a thing exists, I'm sure we will consider it. Until that time, I'm continuing to go to Lodge meetings. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Robert Pearson Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 21 Aug 93 08:21:00 Subject: Re: magic vs tech cultur UpdReq On 08-16-93 12:08, Josh Norton wrote (Re: magic vs tech cultur): JN> One significant difference is that a technological device doesn't JN> require that the "wizard" who designs it personally build each and JN> every copy of it. The actual building usually doesn't require either JN> great education or special talents, so the power of the "wizard" can JN> be multiplied by any number you want, simply by adding more equipment JN> and people to the manufacturing process. OTOH, a shaman/magician's JN> work necessarily requires his personal involvement at every stage of JN> the design and "manufacturing" process for his spells. So the degree JN> to which his services can be used will always be limited by his JN> personal energy and available time. Thus his magick will always be a JN> commodity with limited availability, and it's effect on the quality of JN> life in his society will be similarly limited. Somewhat true, but I feel I should jump in to make a couple of points. 1) A technology based device also needs a craftsperson to make it until/unless some "tool" is designed and built to automate the process. Granted, this is happening more and more, with the level our technology is progressing. 2) While most magicians craft each device individually, this does not have to be the case. Not only is it possible for some magicians to "enchant" multiple devices at the same time, but some magicians HAVE made magickal devices that are designed as "tools" used to make other magickal devices.... JN> Similarly, a tech device works at its job for a long time after it is JN> built, performs that job very many times before it wears out, and -- JN> within limits -- it can be adapted at will _by_the_user_ to different JN> circumstances. Magickal spells are one-shot deals designed to a JN> specific set of circumstances, and any change in the conditions of use JN> requires that the user go back to the magician and get a new spell. Unless the spell is designed to "adapt" to it's environment. Some spells are. For example, a "warding" (magickal protection) can be designed to tap more power from the earth when it is in the process of deflecting a magickal attack. JN> And if it breaks, it can be fixed by someone with less training that JN> the original designer. Consider the Navy ratings who run and fix That depends a lot upon how well the technological device was designed and documented. Some poorly documented devices (especially older "obsolete" ones) are easier to replace from scratch, than trying to fix.... JN> multiplied many times. If a spell "breaks" or screws up, the buyer has JN> no recourse but to go back to the original designer and pay his high JN> fees to get it fixed. Or a magician that can work with the original type of spell energy. Granted, this is somewhat rare, but I have seen it. > As well, someone accustomed to technology can expect that a device > will reliably perform its task, every time it is used, so long as the > parts don't wear out. No such expectation can be made of magick. You really think that you can always expect technology to reliably work, and you use computers? I've got a degree in Computer Science and I don't think that they are always reliable. It's a matter of degree. I find them reliable enough to be useful.... However, if you were trying to make the point that technology is generally more reliable than magick, I would tend to agree. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Julia Phillips 24 Aug 93 10:27:62 Subject: Re: Alchemy UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 22 Aug 93 19:54:00, Julia Phillips wrote: JP> Um Mark, old friend, old chum (creep creep). How would you feel about JP> writing a teensy weensy (say five pages?) article for me on the JP> subject of Alchemy? To be published in Web of Wyrd? I can't pay you (yup, JP> you knew there would be a catch, right?), but you do get your very own, JP> free copy of the issue in which it appears. (Second prize is *two* free JP> copies ). Just a thought :-) Well, I suppose that I probably could...:) :)....How about a few more details though! :) :) I assume that when you say five pages you mean typed (and single spaced at that, I do also assume!). Also, do you wish for this article to be on Alchemy in general or a bit more specific? If indeed you were wanting something a bit more specific, what branch of Alchemy did you have in mind...Internal Alchemy (Spiritual Alchemy), External Alchemy (Sexual Alchemy, the Preparation of the Elixir of Life, et cetera), or Physical Plant and Mineral Alchemy (as in Medieval Alchemy and Spagyrics), or were you hoping for an article on the history of Alchemy? I could accomadate to any of those topics, as you so choose. :) :) In addition, are we speaking about any pertinant dead-lines here...did you need it in a week or two, or a month, or what? I could easily do it in about two weeks, but I am not sure if you were hoping to have it a bit earlier for you Fall Equinox issue. Also, in what format would you like it, and where would you like it sent? Would you like hard-copy or on disk in ASCII or some other format, or would you prefer I just E-Mail it to you? It's all pretty much the same to me...Just let me know how and where to send it, o.k.! :) :) And I suppose since I'm still on the subject, are there any other guidelines or particular viewpoints you might wish for me to adhere to in concerns with this article? Well, I think these are all the questions that I have at the moment. :) :) By the way, if you could send me your address I would, in addition, be more than happy to put you on the mailing list for my newsletter called THE BRIDGE. It's a free newsletter, so it will not cost a thing...:) :) Anyways, I think that's all..., for now anyways! :) :) Take care, I shall speak with you later. Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 24 Aug 93 17:30:00 Subject: Warner Bros. Tarot? UpdReq RA>> Good point, eloquently stated. But what does that make Coyote, then? RA> > The RA> > Fool who has his eyes on the spirit and falls over a cliff as a RA> > result? RA> I suppose you could come up with a fairly interesting "Warner RA>Brothers Tarot Deck." The Coyote could be the Fool, with Bugs as the Magus. RA>And of course Speedy Gonzales would appear on the Eight of Wands. RA> I can see it now... Porky Pig as Har...er..har... the Egyptian god o RA>silence. I'm not sure where I would put Daffy, Yosemite Sam, Tweety, RA>Sylvester, and Foghorn Leghorn, though. Any suggestions? Hmmm... Yosemite Sam as the Emperor (always out there with force), Foghorn Leghorn as the Heirophant (That, I say, that's how ya do it, son!), Tweety as the Hanged Bird(cage)?, Pepe Le Peu as the Lover.... OLX 2.1 TD This tagline is umop apisdn 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Julia Phillips 24 Aug 93 17:33:00 Subject: Re: Shamanism & C.m. UpdReq JP>-=> Quoting Kayla Block to Airmid <=- JP> KB> guess i didn't want to get quite that blatant---but that's basically JP> KB> what i would have expected. i tend to think the whole movement (re: JP> KB> new age shamanism) is disrespectful, but that's just my opinion. it JP> KB> especially upsets me to see people making money off of it. JP>I couldn't agree more, Kayla (and Airmid, if you're lurking). What JP>always amazes me is why people allow the frauds to succeed? I mean, one JP>look at most of them, and the thought that runs through *my* head is JP>"what a dickhead" - I mean, how can you believe some of these twits? Oh JP>well - there's one born every minute, I suppose A lot of people are unwilling to think that something could possibly be "wrong" -- that would be politically incorrect!!!! Horrors! OLX 2.1 TD hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 24 Aug 93 17:36:00 Subject: Re: Elvis The Savior UpdReq RA>> but, really, getting back to your question---i don't know, are you RA> > the son of the son? (what WOULD that be?) RA> If he was the "Son of a Son of a Sailor," he'd be Jimmy Buffett... a RA>figure who is looked upon with near-religious awe by many "Parrottheads." Frater!!! OLX 2.1 TD Bandia agus dia duit! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: GROVE WATCHER Area: MagickNet To: Grendel Grettisson 24 Aug 93 01:52:00 Subject: Odd fellows UpdReq -=> Quoting Grendel Grettisson to GROVE WATCHER <=- GG> It is a fraternal order dedicated to three principles, Friendship, GG> Love, and Truth. In many ways, it is similar to the Masons. At its GG> heyday, the Odd Fellows were as large as or (in some areas) larger GG> than the Masons. I could post a file I have on it. GG> Wassail, GG> Grendel Grettisson I'd appreciate it! Like I said, there is a (insert applicable term) near my home, and I am interested in finding out about 'em! Blessed Be Grove ... If reality wants to get in touch, it knows where I am. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: GROVE WATCHER Area: MagickNet To: Stephen Hovey 24 Aug 93 02:05:00 Subject: Scott Cunningham... UpdReq -=> Quoting Stephen Hovey to Earth Mater <=- SH> At the risk of getting slapped... I bought Scot Cunninghams tape on SH> herbal magick.. He really comes off badly... {And it harm none... And it harm NONE... AND IT HARM NONE!} How did Cunningham come off badly? Was it anything specific, or just general poor work? BTW, _what_ tape on herb magic? Audio or video? Title? Blessed Be, Grove ... Don't play "stupid" with me... I'm better at it. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: GROVE WATCHER Area: MagickNet To: Michael Thorn 24 Aug 93 02:48:02 Subject: Press release-COG & Parliament of the World's ReligionsRec'd UpdReq -=> Quoting Michael Thorn to All <=- MT> Such renowned religious leaders as the Dalai Lama, Mother MT> Theresa, and the Archbishop of Canterbury+as well as the head of an MT> organization representing practitioners of the religion known as MT> Witchcraft or Wicca that originated in pre-Christian Europe+are MT> scheduled to address the second Parliament of the World+s Religions, MT> to be held Aug. 28 through Sept. 5 in downtown Chicago at the Palmer MT> House Hilton hotel. The first Parliament was held in Chicago in 1893. Michael, I was told by one of the women who are to be presenting the Goddess(es) to the assembly that neither the Pope nor Mother Theresa are going to be present! Is this TRUE! Please, tell me it ain't so! (Good Luck, Windy!) Blessed Be, Grove ... BARK! BARK! +++~!@# NO TERRIER 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: DOMINIC ASPEL Area: MagickNet To: All 25 Aug 93 15:44:00 Subject: Pyramid Power UpdReq I just picked up the Alt.Magic conference on internet, and one of the first things I read was a question to all about pyramid power and it's use in magick. It also seemed interesting to me that I had just recently started a study into the history and magick of Egypt and the thought of utilizing a pyramid and it's supposedly strange powers in magick. I don't say "supposedly" because I don't belive that there is something odd about a pyramid, just that I've never had any persoanl experiences in it. Has anyone here ever used a pyramid in any form of magick? Like maybe casting a pyramid instead of a circle? :) I've heard several theories from a simple "meditational power enhancer" to " a time machine that Atlantians use to send prophets into the future"! What have you folks found if anything...since alot of magick can find roots in Egypt. ... Documentation - The worst part of programming. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: EAGLE WIZARD Area: MagickNet To: Barry 25 Aug 93 07:00:00 Subject: Acronyms UpdReq Barry talked, about Acronyms > Hi all - It's fascinating, lurking back in the shadows and eavesdropping and learning a lot from you folks but I have to ask - WHAT IS ROFL? Also LOL. I've got IMHO & BTW & IOW figured out, but ROFL and LOL are tormenting. IOU my thanks :). > Hey, don't just lurk, jump in, and join the conversation. I know a lot of folk will answer you, but I thought I would anyway. ROFL = Rolling On [the] Floor laughing LOL = Laughing Out Loud Somewhere this is a text file floating around that explains all of the most common acronyms. They are pretty universal for all networks. Blessed Be EAGLE 06:59:13 Wednesday WIZARD August 25 1993 --- TAGLINE -> All answers questioned here. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Michael Thorn Area: MagickNet To: Grove Watcher 26 Aug 93 07:21:36 Subject: Press release-COG & Parliament of the World's ReligionsSent UpdReq The Pope was not scheduled to attend, though there will be reps from the Vatican and it seems that Mother Theresa is in the hospital in India. We'll see if she can make it. BB 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Titus Vandessel Area: MagickNet To: Paladin 26 Aug 93 12:36:00 Subject: THAT tome Sent UpdReq PA=Avon Necro. On another network, several knowledgeable users PA=[including several who were long time acquaintances of Herman & PA=Peter] & myself took Levenda to task, point by point, error by For the record, I first met Slater in 1980. The last time I saw him was at St. Vincent's Hosp. ca a week before he died. Who were these long-time acquaintances? Name names. PA=An author [and I speak from experience here] has a much more PA=intimate knowledge of their work than Levenda showed. While I'm sure The operative phrase here is "Levenda showed..." PA=I also corresponded with Levenda for some time by snail mail. His Really? Do you still have hi address? There are several people I know who would like to contact him. tvd. ___ X SLMR 2.1a X A man's best friend is his dogma. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Enchanter Area: MagickNet To: Fillander Kishpa 25 Aug 93 11:04:44 Subject: Re: Oklahoma and the stor Sent UpdReq -=> The Wise Fillander Kishpa said humbly to Dragonstar... <=- FK> True... but while it takes greater strength to turn the other cheek, FK> that doesn't keep the same person from killing again. If we all turn FK> the other cheek, Charles Manson would still be at it! Doing "a study" of :) Charlie :) for the past 15 years (give or take), reading and/or watching nearly every interview with him, I have to disagree with you. Charlie said "I am everywhere, Man." Charlie meant "I am not the only one." Charlie said "I am in your head, you make me." Charlie meant "without your attentions to me, I would cease to enjoy this." ... Demand a 9600 BAUD psychomodem and a telepathic protocol. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718