From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: The Hobbit 15 Aug 93 08:29:08 Subject: Help!!! UpdReq TH> Hang in there Beorn. A year ago I was so depressed that the only TH> reasons I didn't take the easy way out were that my parents didn't TH> deserve to go through that and my belief in re-incarnation. After TH> all If you don't deal with your lessons this time around you will TH> have to next time. I got help and things are 200% better. You TH> won't believe how much things can turn around. Thanks, those were pretty much my reasons for not bailing out, too. A lot of my problems seem to be the chemical kind. Hopefully, once I get rid of the mood swings, the rest of the stuff will fall into place. So who were you in your last life? ... I had my car's alignment checked...it's Chaotic Evil. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 15 Aug 93 08:30:56 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk Rec'd UpdReq AS> God hates Florida. She doesn't hate it, just dislikes it a *lot*. ... Ignorance or Apathy? I don't know, and I don't care! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 15 Aug 93 08:44:34 Subject: Re: HELP!!! UpdReq Ra> I had a similar experience during my last (and in many ways worst) Ra> bout with depression. It seems the best way to engender compassion is Ra> to teach the Adept about suffering. Ra> (Sigh... would that they could find a somewhat easier way!) This wasn't even my worst bout...probably 'cuz I got help right away. I've gotten real good at suffering, so maybe I'll be good at compassion too. Maybe then, I'll stop suffering (<---look ma, a double meaning!) I seem to have what's called bi-polar depression, which is mostly chemical. I may find my solution over at the drug store. Who knows, maybe they'll find a way to put compassion in a capsule, someday. ... Help! The paranoids are after me!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Ismark 15 Aug 93 08:55:14 Subject: Re: HELP!!! UpdReq B> ... Pain is the fuel of progress. Is> It seems that it was *you* it was meant for after all. Yep, I think I've made a lot of real progress. The caterpillar hurts when his wings burst forth. So, why are you here on the nets. What is it about Magic that made you become a POD person? ... ZenCrafters: Total Enlightenment, in about an hour. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 15 Aug 93 09:03:54 Subject: Re: that tome UpdReq JN> Hehe. I guess I can understand that. I used to reach oneness with the JN> Tao by cranking my bike up to 120 or so and just going and going. That sounds more like the Energizer Bunny that the Road Runner. I wish I could ride, but two things are stopping me: I busted my tailbone when I rammed I cop car at 40 (obviously I was in a car), and I've driven every car I've ever owned at top speed on public highways. 120 was real nice on 4 wheels, but 150 on 2?!? ... I had my car's alignment checked...it's Chaotic Evil. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Fillander Kishpa 15 Aug 93 09:10:20 Subject: Tarot UpdReq FK> What is the general feelings on Tarot decks, if this is the right FK> place to ask. Also, anyone ever done "stream of consciousness" FK> writing? Just writing what ever flows out, in whatever form, or words. FK> I've done it once, and it was strange. Has anyone else done this? There's a Tarot echo on PODS that you might be able to con your Sysop into carrying. I don't use Tarot to predict the future, myself. I tend to use it as a tool to look into my subconcious. ... Reality-ometer: [......../] Time for a vacation! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ace Lightning Area: MagickNet To: Fillander Kishpa 15 Aug 93 23:19:20 Subject: Tarot UpdReq The Tarot is a valuable tool for learning and practicing many disciplines that come under the general heading "occult". Most people have some measure of psychic ability; the Tarot manifests this so obviously that it can serve to convince skeptics. The fact that the colorful and symbol-rich pictures connect with archetypal images we all carry deep in our subconscious minds gives the Tarot cards an overall feeling of "mysticism"; many people have been attracted to one esoteric path or another by first experiencing the Tarot. I could go on and on and on and on and There are many different Tarot decks, and many different books of interpretation, some of which are mutually exclusive. Your first deck should either be one that "calls out" to you in some way, or a gift from someone with whom you have a spiritual link. The rest is just "practice, man, practice". The "stream-of-consciousness" writing you describe is "officially" called "automatic writing". Depending on your belief system, it is either "channeled" messages from spirits/deities/ghosts/extraterrestrials/etc., or messages from your own unconscious and subconscious mind(s). [Personally, I don't see any difference..] It can be beautiful, disturbing, cryptic, wise, or just horsesh*t. Have fun with it, but don't take it too seriously. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Ace Lightning Area: MagickNet To: Fir 15 Aug 93 23:36:08 Subject: Occult Shops, NYC UpdReq I don't live in NYC any more, and the only times I ever go there are for Circle (the coven I belong to meets in the city). I know of a place called "Craft of the Wise", and a store with a name something like "Altared Images" (statues, etc., of the deities of your choice). Weiser's bookstore moved, I think. I live near the Jersey Shore now, and there are a whole *slew* of "New Age" and occult-oriented places around here. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Thomas Palmer Area: MagickNet To: Mark O. Garrison 17 Aug 93 10:12:00 Subject: RE: MASONRY and Women UpdReq TP> Ahem, MOG> I'm sorry, I hope you are not coming down with a cold (or is MOG> your computer coming down with a virus?)! :) :) Just a little CPU congestion, but its feeling muuccch better now. TP> On a less legalistic note, Membership is not a right, but a privlege. TP> It take only two (in some states one) dissenting vote (Black Ball) to TP> prevent membership or advancement. MOG> This must cause a lot of unintentional "politics" and necessary MOG> "kissing-up" in order to keep oneself in good graces. You would MOG> think to be fair they would make it a necessary decision by Tribunal MOG> in the least... :) :) Well, initially perhaps. While one is going through the degrees, a three to six month process usually, one does tend to mind ones "P's" and "Q's". After initiation is complete, however, it is amuch more involved process to throw a person out. It then requires a "Masonic Trial" before the Grand Master (in the US, he is the top dog of a given state). It generally takes a violation of the Masonic Obligations or a criminal act of moral turpitude to get a man thrown out. Just pissing off a few people won't do it. I have even seen a Grand Master discipline a brother for bringing charges of a personal, petty, and spiteful nature. In any event, since harmony and brotherly love is the goal of all Masons when in Lodge assembled, a certain amount of "kissing up" is done by everyone. One of the first lessons taught in Masonry is that of the Compass, Which teaches us to set limits on our passions and keep them properly contained (Circumscribed). TP> It is also a part of the Obligation of a Master Mason to not admit to TP> the fraternity," a woman, an old man in his dotage, a young man in his TP> nonage, a madman, an atheist or a fool, knowing him or them to be such." MOG> Yes, I (and Kayla, and many others) have been very familiar MOG> with this, that is why the subject and question had been brought up. MOG> Alot of us who are members in the O.T.O. or those whom study the MOG> occult tend to read many Masonic texts...and are thusly are quite MOG> familiar with much in masonry...there are many similar interests MOG> betwixt the two, as I see that you do indeed realize. :) :) Gee, MOG> you can not allow admittance of a "young man in his nonage, a madman, MOG> an atheist and a fool?" I guess that excludes me from membership on MOG> four accounts! :) :) I am interested in the O.T.O., as much of what we do in our "Wiccan" rites is influenced by the more ritualistic rites of Masonry, but have failed to make contact in Denver. Is their a way that you know to help me find them here? My queries on the Boards have gone unanswered. TP> Masonry is not secretive about this, and if it were against any law, TP> the many judges, lawyers, and politicians within the fraternity would TP> have seen to it that the fraternity confromed to the letter of the law. MOG> Point taken, indeed. I understand what you are trying to say MOG> here, although, however, you must confess that the logic in this above MOG> statement is rather faulty. Who can say that these judges, lawyers, MOG> and politicians whom are members of masonry would have their loyalties MOG> be other than to the order and to their oaths as above stated. If they MOG> had taken the Oath of the Master Mason...part of which is to exclude MOG> said types from membership in their order...then, if those men indeed MOG> have honour, then they would truly honour their oaths. Thusly, their MOG> agenda and loyalty would be thusly biased...they would be restricted MOG> by honour from upholding (or rallying for) a law which is in direct MOG> violation of such a primary oath. Just a side-thought, though. :) :) A politician or lawyer who abused their offices may have a long political career, but their time as a Mason would be short. Dishonesty is not tolerated when discovered. Also if you read history, you will see a concerted effort on the part of Washington, Jefferson, Frankin, Payne, & many other Masons to set up the Government of this country according to Masonic principles of tolerance and Liberty. (Washington, by the way, was Master of his Masonic Lodge while he was President) This is not to say that these principles are exclusive to Masonry, but that Masonic thought and teachings about tolerance and harmony provided the "mortar" that united this country. Religion could not have done it, as countries with state religions had shown. Absolute power of a Monarch could not have done it. Ask a Mason about Masonry, he'll talk your arm off. BB Thomas Palmer ... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Thomas Palmer Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 17 Aug 93 10:33:00 Subject: Re: THAT tome UpdReq TP> To do this they must meet strict definitions imposed by law and recieve TP> absolutely no public funds for their activities. The Masonic Lodge is TP> funded by the Membership directly. To my knowledge, Masonry (or any KB> do you mean strict definitions of what constitutes a fraternal KB> organization? Yes, as well as not public, no federal support, etc. Incidentally, when the Grand Lodge lays a conerstone on a public building or a Church, (Check the Northeast corner of the State Capitol Building in most states to see one) the Lodge pays for it, and often the crane to place it. KB> i would imagine that somewhere in time, at least one "fraternal KB> organization" has been legally challenged on discrimination laws, but KB> i don't know of any cases. it would be interesting to find out. I would probably been more correct to say successfully challenged. No case I know of has gotten far enough to be of major concern, certainly not to any State of Federal Supreme Court. TP> educational purposes which is tax exempt. If the IRS could get to it with TP> discrimination laws, they would have done so. KB> why would the IRS be able to get at it under discrimination laws, KB> regardless of the type of organization? (apparently there is KB> something in tax law that i don't understand, here). If we fail the Fraternal or non-profit test, all Lodge income becomes taxable. This income has been projected as much as half a billion dollars annually, if all lodges are taken into account. The Colorado Grand Lodges Budget, for example, (I was at the budget meeting last week) is $300,000.00 a year, and that is only a rake off from the constituent lodges of $13.00 a member. Big bucks add up quick. A pleasure to speak to you, hope I didn't talk your arm off. Send my fraternal greetings to your resident Mason. BB Thomas Palmer ... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Rose Dawn 15 Aug 93 19:47:08 Subject: Re: WOMEN & MASONRY UpdReq -=> Rose Dawn sent a message to Kayla Block on 10 Aug 93 11:28:47 <=- -=> Re: Re: WOMEN & MASONRY <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. RD> I *do* remember a case--written up in the _Los Angeles Daily Journal_ RD> as a matter of fact!--where a woman sued the Hells Angels on the basis RD> of gender discrimination. I've yet to see a female flying the R&W! Hehehe... for one thing, seems to me they're a fraternal organization just as much as the Masons, etc; for another, most of the 1%ers I know would disband before they'd let a court tell 'em who to admit. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... The venom of my fang is the inheritance of my father, 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 17 Aug 93 21:43:50 Subject: magickal vs tech culture UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Christeos Pir on 14 Aug 93 19:29:00 <=- -=> Re: magickal vs tech culture <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JN> Both -- what's wrong with that? An idea can be wrong from several JN> different points of view. Let me recap my points so we don't confuse JN> the different parts of this discussion. OK, gotcha. I agree with your description of the process, on the whole, though I reserve the right to my fondness for Clarke's so-called theorem. (In fact, as I understand your p-o-v, you reinforce the idea that what was once magick is now science, and what is now magick may one day be science.) Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... My adepts stand upright; 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: MagickNet To: Mark O. Garrison 17 Aug 93 21:54:10 Subject: RE: XTIANITY AND MAGICK UpdReq -=> Mark O. Garrison sent a message to Dominic Aspel on Sat 14 Aug 93 11:16 <=- -=> Re: RE: XTIANITY AND MAGICK <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MOG> Of course. Look at the Jehovah Witnesses who proclaimed the MOG> exact date of the rapture--being around 75 years ago. What an I think you mean the Millerites, precursors of the 7th-Day Adventists. MOG> Know Thyself Explore MOG> Dedicate yourself to a particular path (even if it be of your MOG> own making). Attain Knowledge and Conversation with your Holy MOG> Gaurdian Angel--to discover and realize your True Will Work MOG> towards that Will Purify and Perfect Thyself--through ritual and MOG> invocation Cross the Abyss/Destruction of the Ego MOG> Seek Union with the Unknowable Infinite (Whew!) For a while there, I thought it was gonna be difficult! Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... These gods came right quickly to mine aid. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Xavaaq Area: MagickNet To: Farrell McGovern 18 Aug 93 07:59:54 Subject: Milo Sent UpdReq Im confused.. I confess I havent been on in a while, but while reading through the message bases I notices this milo controversy. I did a back read as far as this system I am on will go.. and could not find anything written by him that was any much different from many other messages Ive read from other individuals. All I got a sense of, was that he managed to push the right buttons aon a few individuals. Perhaps the pertinent noted have been zapped from the system I log in on. Im certain he was made 'read only' because he followed a very left hand path... I mean it would be the hieght of hipocracy 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Xavaaq Area: MagickNet To: Ace Lightning 18 Aug 93 08:14:24 Subject: THAT tome Sent UpdReq What other stores are there in NYC other than Magickal Childe? MC was the only one I ever found while in the big apple. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Frater Xavaaq Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 18 Aug 93 08:19:48 Subject: Re: THAT tome Sent UpdReq Kayla, Mason's are not the only group that can legally descriminate. Try the united negro college fund, try almost any 'minority' org, be it founded on gender, race, religion... The only people in the USA today who are not allowed to hate any other group are caucasion men. Women can hate men, blacks can hate whites, jews can hate arabs, etc. but white men must love everybody equal OR ELSE. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Brian Downs Area: MagickNet To: Ace Lightning 18 Aug 93 11:12:04 Subject: Occult Shops, NJ! Sent UpdReq AL>I don't live in NYC any more, and the only times I ever go AL>there are for Circle (the coven I belong to meets in the AL>city). I know of a place called "Craft of the Wise", and a AL>store with a name something like "Altared Images" (statues, AL>etc., of the deities of your choice). Weiser's bookstore AL>moved, I think. I live near the Jersey Shore now, and there AL>are a whole *slew* of "New Age" and occult-oriented places AL>around here. Hail & Hello, Ace Lightning! Regarding shops, I'm in a position opposite yours: I live in NY and am interested in NJ occult-oriented places. Specifically, I've heard rumor of a store opening in the Longbranch area. Might you give me any leads? Many thanks in advance... Bright*Blessings - bd ___ X SLMR 2.1a X When an Agnostic dies, does he go to the Great Perhaps? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 18 Aug 93 20:57:44 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk Sent UpdReq Right on! Glad to know I'm not bobbing in a sea of ignorance! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718