From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: The Hobbit 17 Aug 93 00:07:18 Subject: ufo Sent UpdReq GOOD FOR YOU! The emphasis is, indeed, on the word UNIDENTIFIED. Check out the works of Jacques Vallee. The character "LaCombe" in CLOSE ENCOUNTERS is based on him. In his latest, REVELATIONS, available in paperback, he presents five excellent arguments against the extraterrestrial hypothesis regarding these phenomena. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Fir 11 Aug 93 08:49:12 Subject: MAGICKAL CHILDE DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 10 Aug 93 21:32:00, Fir wrote: MO> Yes, this is indeed true, or at least there is enough MO> information that exists that attributes such a relation. Even MO> the introduction to the Avon version of THE NECRONOMICON claims MO> such a participation on Herman Slater's part, although mind MO> you, it refers to him as the owner of the Magickal Childe MO> bookstore rather than by his name... F> Who would have figured? BTW do you know if rumors about the F> store closing in New York are true? It sure was a fun store F> to shop in. B.B. Fir I have indeed heard several rumours concerning the present and future status of The Magickal Childe bookstore in New York. Most of my information comes from the O.T.O. "Rumour Mill" though! By the way, I wonder if the O.T.O. has a Minister of Propaganda? ;) ;) Anyways, I have heard that the current owners are struggling to keep everything together...but it seems as if they are having a most difficult go at it! I guess Herman's shoes are really big to fill! :) :) They have no intentions of closing the store down, but from what I have heard, based upon their situation, this may soon become an inevitability. I have also heard that various members of the occult community have already started a "Betting Pool" on how long it will actually take for them to go under...so I guess things might actually be pretty grim afterall. Well, we could look at the positive side of things and realize that when someone is new at something, it takes a while to get used to things, to understand the "ropes" well enough to deal with everything...perhaps in time, the current owners will be able to run as "tight" of a "ship" as Herman did. I do hope the best for them, though. However, all in all, whether they get the business under control or not, I sincerely doubt that they are going to be able to design books as wonderfully as Herman did...there will be very few people who will ever be able to take his place or exceed in this area...Not to worry though. I suppose that gives me even more reason to hurry up with starting the Publishing Company I have had in the works! Hope this helped to satiate your curiousity, even if it is just "rumour!" Take Care, hope to speak with you soon. Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 13 Aug 93 22:18:54 Subject: Elvis the savior And then there's BOB. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: NightCreeper 13 Aug 93 22:25:24 Subject: Re: Rituals RE: brushing the teeth: Crowley said: "Cleanliness is next to Godliness, and should come first." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: NightCreeper 13 Aug 93 22:27:16 Subject: Re: MILO Truth is inflexible. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Fir 13 Aug 93 22:30:08 Subject: Seven It is the bridge between 6 and 8. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Albert Saperstein Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 13 Aug 93 22:31:56 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk God hates Florida. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Dominic Aspel 14 Aug 93 11:16:12 Subject: RE: XTIANITY AND MAGICK UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 10 Aug 93 10:11:00, Drspock wrote: MOG> I assume from the way you are so influenced by the fundamental MOG> interpretations of the Revelation of John of Patmos that you have little MOG> or no background studying Apocalyptic Literature. During the time of the MOG> Babylonian and Roman Occupations, the most often written literature was MOG> Apocalyptic. They D> Never thought of it that way. But in so doing, it makes alot of D> things fall into place and make more sense that ever before. In all the D> reading I've been doing, I've come to admire the Babylonian civilization. D> Thanks to the old Xian influence, I felt the admiration was 'wrong'. Once D> again the Wisdom comes forth and clears my eyes! :) Babylonian Civilization was unique indeed...they were Barbarians who conquered the Highly-Sociologically Advanced Sumerians and over the course of a half of a century came to become the most advanced society in the Western World at that time...They had adopted all of the Sumerians culture: their language, their religion, their customs, their technologies, their philosophies (with the exception of war--which they retained--unlike the Sumerians who were peaceful agarians.). In essence, they became they whom they had conquered! It is quite a fascinating culture indeed. Glad I could send a little wisdom your way! :) :) But ponder this, for a moment or two: was it what I had said that caused you to "see," or was it you, and what you had thought after reading this, and then thusly chose to believe that made you come to "see?" MOG> damned by God and they would once again be free...Anyways, the point MOG> being this, there is a plethora of Apocalyptic Literature, all saying MOG> similar but varied things...and second of all, the end times have been MOG> continuously D> Ain't this the truth! Even as an Xian, I fought many over this one D> point. Everyone seemed to feel that we were not going to die in this D> generation, but rather we would be raptured. We waited for 2000 D> years, and the wait seemed to go on. The reason I hated this idea so much D> was just the basic human desire to succeed! My Xian teachers kept telling D> me that man-kind was going to fail, no matter what he did. This really D> stuck in my side, I wanted us all to pass. Of course. Look at the Jehovah Witnesses who proclaimed the exact date of the rapture--being around 75 years ago. What an embarrassment indeed to wake up the next day to find everything pretty much the same way as the day before! :) :) The only thing that we must beware of, however, is the "Self-Fulfilling Prophecy." If enough people think it is going to happen, they, through their actions (or inactions) can bring such an event to occur. Look at the Environmental Emergency our Earth is in at the moment...with the Ozone layer alone, if we don't do something to reverse and repair the damage we are doing to it, human life could very well cease to exist (some scientists have said) in 50 years...and what makes it worse is that I hear Xtians (who are unfortunately the "Moral Majority" in America) say, "Why should we care about the environment, it doesn't matter. Those of us who have Faith in God and have accepted Jesus Christ, our personal Lord and Saviour will be raptured and God will purge the Earth long before then!" How sickening! Their unwillingness to help make things better is ONE of the reasons for the current sad state of affairs! Don't they read their own Bible--is their not lesson after lesson showing that their God only helps those who choose to help themselves?...And they expect that same God to save them from their own inaction! Anyways, perhaps with things changing the way that they are, and the gradual loss of appeal that Xtianity carries, maybe the End Times for Xtians (the Death of Xtianity as a religion) is indeed close at hand... :) :) I respect a man who is not only willing to make a success of himself, but is determined to help humankind along with him. Cheerio, ol' chap! :) :) MOG> If need be, consider it, for now, your goal to rebuild those things >that these Xtians (as you once were) had destroyed. Work not so much for >yourself, but instead for others...for those generations yet to come...build >something that will endure beyond your lifetime... D> You people keep giving me more and more definitions for the D> magickal arts! :) Each time someone writes to me, it seems it's goal can D> be re-defined. It almost sounds like you're calling magi those who are D> archeologists(sp ?) that practice what they learn. An exciting term, D> eh? Hmmm. I never thought of it precisely like that (although I am studying Archaeology and will be going back to college next year to work on a degree in this area...), but yes, I suppose, in a manner of speaking, yes! :) :) As for the definition of magick, magick is such a broad subject encompassing all the known esoteric sciences of all cultures and ages past...it is most difficult to sum up the unifying and common factors amongst all of these and put the essence of what magick is into words. I suppose therefore, each person has his own idea of how to define it. I know my ideas of magick have changed quite drastically over the years...my view is of magick is a lot less romantic than it once was! :) :) As for the goals of magick, it all depends on where you are on your path to spiritual growth. Generally though, you can look at the goals being like these, and in this order: Know Thyself Explore Dedicate yourself to a particular path (even if it be of your own making). Attain Knowledge and Conversation with your Holy Gaurdian Angel--to discover and realize your True Will Work towards that Will Purify and Perfect Thyself--through ritual and invocation Cross the Abyss/Destruction of the Ego Seek Union with the Unknowable Infinite Anyways, that is it in a nutshell...all of the suggestions I have seen posted to you fit on their somewhere...and of course, there are the things which you may discover on your own that you may wish to make a personal magickal goal to work towards, but this probably fits under Working Toward Your Will. DA> Here's a question for you and anybody else who reads this. When DA> you first started to explore the occult sciences, did you ever feel like DA> someone/thing was leading you? I mean not just strange co-incedences, MOG> Yes, indeed I have. In a way, I believe we all have. It is called your MOG>"Higher Self!" This concept is also called by other names--"WILL" (True MOG> Will) D> The "oddities" keep popping up all over the place! In the last few D> weeks it's almost become a game for me..... All of D> these little events began to fall into place as I just about turned my D> back on the occult world, thinking it was just another group of people D> that had conviced themselves it was real. Well, I hope that you don't let these events go to your head (the Ego can be a most formidable enemy indeed!) and that you don't ever strive for these effects...they are just side effects, don't let them distract you from the things that are truly important--your spiritual growth. Many a talented occultist wasted his/her life away spending years trying to bend spoons with their mind...and so on...However, if it is any consolation, it does sound like you are experiencing the same things I did...it used to drive my girlfriend crazy--she even came to resent me for always "knowing" things...However, over the course of the last year or two, I have begun to not even realize that these things are happening, the way I act is no different than that if I had not known--it is just much more comforting to be informed and prepared for that which was about to come--and I have begun to think that probably everyone is this way, that it is nothing unnatural, and thusly nothing to worry or loose sleep over...:) :) Anyways, enjoy it while you still have not taken it for granted! :) :) MOG> Oh, by the way, have you been keeping a journal of all of these D> Yes I have, and it makes for some of my better reading! :) Good to hear it! :) :) You get an "A" for today's lesson! :) :) MOG> I know what you mean.:) Supplication , however, can be an effective >method of magic (yes, prayer is a form of magic! ). However, there are D> I understand that all of these methods are ways of achieving a good D> measure of concentration on the task at hand, it's just prayer wasn't D> my cup-o'-tea. It is very few people's cup-o'-tea...especially for those who can thing and act for themselves. I suppose that if one was a mindless sheep, or horribly submissive (with a Freudian Complex to be dominated) this might be just the most perfect thing...However...;) ;) MOG> recesses of your unconscious self...to incorporate that part of your mind MOG> to your consciousness. So, I guess you could say that by Invocation, we MOG> explore and assimilate that part of the mind. D> Does this eliminate the existance of Divinity in you opinion? I suppose that that is for each individual to decide. I myself believe in an infinite, all-pervasive primal force...however, I look to this force as being just that (kinda like electricity!) rather than a conscious and obviously finitely-limited divinity. When it comes to Gods as in the Xtian sense of the word, and with most of the gods in the Torah and all other pantheons, I consider these to be no more than an externalization (or projection) of man's own psyche. However, I'm sure that there are those who would beg to differ. Besides, it would be rather foolhardy for one to claim anything such as the existence (or lack thereof) a any divinity to be an absolute anyways. We cannot prove the arguement either way... MOG> Unfortunately, not every occultist is as discerning as you appear to >be. :) Many have been duped by such dubious and fictitious works. D> At the risk of starting another thread like the one I got going a D> couple of weeks ago, i.e. That Tome :), a couple of years ago I saw the D> movie Warlock, ( I know...I know ). Anyway, the story centered around the D> "Grand Grimmoire". I have come to find that the book does exist, I D> think, and am wondering what it really is about. The move stated that it D> held the "secret name of God. When spoken backwards it would undo D> Creation". Yes, I realize this *is* all fantasy, but what does the book D> really contain? Hey, kid, you with the blond hair and blue eyes, yeah D> you, the un-baptised one, come here...:) You don't have to be so timid...Warlock was indeed a fairly good movie--as far as movies go, anyways! :) :) As for the Grand Grimoire, oh my! The GRAND GRIMOIRE is perhaps one of the most fantastic of all the grimoires--even more so than the GRIMOIRUM VERUM which comes a close second. It was introduced by Antonio Venitiana de Rabina, who claimed authourship and editorship, but this is most very likely false. It is though, most definitely of Italian Medieval origins. It is a most rare tome--and because of it's rarity, it has been falsely regarded as the most veritable of grimoires. It is claimed to be the genuine and true writings of King Solomon (typical of most grimoires of this era) but holds even less validity to such a claim than compared with the KEYS OF SOLOMON THE KING. This work is considered the most diabolical of the diabolical. It is regarded as one of the most attrocious works on the subject of evocation and necromancy.This work is divided into two parts. The first contains the instructions for constructing the "Blasting" Rod and it's use in the following evocation of Lucifuge Rofocale. This part deals with the making of pacts with "evil" spirits to obtain "hidden treasure." The second part entails detailed recipies and instructions of which through Necromancy on gives himself over to the agency of the so called "Devil." A most nefarious working indeed. Though note, some have postulated that this text is encoded...that perhaps there are different alchemical meanings for the instructions presented in this book...that the dark and "evil" character was placed upon it to scare away the uninitiated. Although this is quite true of many grimoires from this era, I sincerely doubt that this is the case in concerns with this particular one. It seems to be more along the lines of the invention of some frustrated and angry (not to mention repressed ) Catholic priest who designed what he percieved to be magic--magic of a "black" nature--thusly the Liturgy of the Black Mass and the unending references to Satan and Lucifer... Evocation can be a very effective tool--when done properly. However, though it tends to, by its very nature, appeal more to the Ego of the practitioner, and deals with more supperstition than to true magickal use. However, note also that "grimoire" means "grammer book." Grimoires purposely leave out tons of information, and on many occassions put in false information (for reasons of secrecy and security) because they were written under the assumption that the reader was already properly trained in the magickal arts and knew the "basics" and could clearly notice and correct the errors...Certainly, they were not meant for beginneers! :) :) Oh, as for the Secret Name of God and undoing (or Creating, in the same merit) all of Creation with the use of this name, is a common Qabalistic belief. There exists many Secret Names of God which all have profound effects in ritual. However, the Secret Name of God that was used to create the Multiverse is the Torah. Originally the Torah had no space marks...it was one complete word. The Qabalists posited that if one could decipher and correctly re-arrange the text, he could re-create the Universe (or destroy likewise), create human/living life, to create souls, resurrect the dead, perform miracles and so on...This is how the Golem of Rabbi Eliezar Rokeach and Rava was purported to have been created. If this area interests you, I would suggest that you read SEFER YETZIRAH (The Book of Creation) In Theory and Practice by Aryeh Kaplan. MOG> Sounds like you have a plan! :) :) In time, you will start to discover MOG> the mythology and symbology inside of yourself...then, you will have the MOG> tools D> It's about freaking time, I'm so sick of "wandering in the desert". D> It really feels good to have a purpose other than just to see whats out D> there. Wandering in the Desert has much more of a purpose than you may realize. You will soon find that it may be something that will seem to occur on a regular basis (it is also called The Dark Night Of The Soul). It is best to get used to it, and to just let it happen...to keep your determination and persevere through the entire matter. :) :) D> I wanted to quote and reply more, but as it is I had to do this D> reply from a captured file, the BBS I call had a message base crash of D> sorts. Don't you hate it when that happens! I also noticed that you had logged on here at Shades of Reality B.B.S. in Oregon. A most interesting Alias you have chosen...you are a Star Trek Junkie aren't you? Well, I should get going...Good luck, keep in touch, and if ever you have any questions....:) :) Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Abdallat Al-Talib Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 14 Aug 93 20:06:00 Subject: Elvis The Savior UpdReq Your message of 13AUG93 to Josh Norton said: KB}"Elvis Christ Superstar" is on a few BBS's. if there's any interest, }i might post it here. it cabalistically PROVES that elvis is the }current lord of the aeon. I'M INTERESTED!!! Please, post this information! It will go so well with my "MotherBoard Ritual" and "Ye Ancient & Profane Rite to Summone the Daemon Crowley" files. 8-} * OLX 2.1 TD * Attention... Elvis has just eaten the building. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fir Area: MagickNet To: Mark O. Garrison 15 Aug 93 08:37:00 Subject: Phanes Press, Math Book UpdReq Do you know anything about The Theology of Arithmetic? Blessings, Fir 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Joker Area: MagickNet To: Ismark 15 Aug 93 06:57:58 Subject: Re: HI ALL UpdReq Is> Anytime. :) Now what was your question again? Please explain Wicca in Laymans terms so I know what you all are talking about. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: The Hobbit 15 Aug 93 12:05:00 Subject: Saint norton UpdReq Thus said The Hobbit to Kayla Block concerning Saint norton: -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Josh Norton <=- KB> i forgot that emperor norton was mentioned in the illuminatus trilogy. KB> the emperor is still frequently talked about in the bay area. TH> O.k. already my curiosity can't take it anymore. Can you pretty please TH> enlighten an ignorant Floridian who has never read the illuminatus TH> trilogy? Who is Emperor Norton? I think I may have heard the name TH> before but havent a clue as to in what context. Joshua Norton, aka Norton I, (blessed be his memory) was a character in San Francisco during the Gold Rush days. One day he announced that he was appointing himself Emperor of the United States and Protector of Mexico, started going around in some rather beat-up royal finery, and generally acting as if he actually WAS Emperor of the United States. He did his act so thoroughly that people ended up treating him as royalty. (They usually said they were "going along with the joke", but they did it just the same.) He issued his own money, which was accepted at face value by most S.F. establishments, and wrote letters of advice to presidents and the Queen of England (and had them taken seriously). The main thing about him was that, despite being (supposedly) crazy, he had a force of personality and an air of true moral strength so powerful that people could not help but treat him according to his own view of himself. He _created_ a reality and caused the rest of the world to conform to it. That makes him a Magus, in my book. As an example of his strength of character: At one time there was a race-riot by unemployed white residents against the Chinese immigrants. The riot got so out of hand that the local police decided to withdraw and let it burn itself out. Norton stopped the riot simply by placing himself in its path, and standing with his head bowed in prayer. The rioters got close enough to hear him, stopped dead in their tracks, and after a few moments they dispersed. ... What does it all mean, Mr. Natural? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Albert Saperstein 15 Aug 93 15:38:06 Subject: Elvis the savior UpdReq Thus said Albert Saperstein to Josh Norton concerning Elvis the savior: AS> And then there's BOB. Hi Albert! Welcome! FYI, and in no sense condemning you, there's a "quote" facility in most BBS reply editors. You ought to use it so we know just what you are referring to. Naked replies get a bit confusing, given the amount of time that lapses between sending a message and receipt of a reply. Sometimes the author has posted two or three more messages in the series by the time he gets your comment. I know that BaphoNet has the "Blue Wave" offline mail-reader available for downloading. If you're using an IBM-compatible computer, it's the greatest thing since chocolate cake; it lets you participate in the arguments here without the pressure of formulating your comments within your limited allotment of online time. If you're using a Macintosh, rummage around the BBSs for a program called "Freddie". Check 'em out. Hail Eris! ... Bad taste is timeless. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 14 Aug 93 11:53:28 Subject: Ritual? UpdReq NC> I do not belive in rituals, it is to strait forward into evil. ... KB> (uh-oh, i better stp calling these boards!) It's too late! We've sold our souls into Eternal Damnation! KB> 93, I wonder if 9/3/93 will be a good day for a ritual? :) ... ZenCrafters: Total Enlightenment, in about an hour. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Donald C. Ives Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 15 Aug 93 23:12:26 Subject: Re: Elvis the savior UpdReq -=> Quoting Kayla Block to Josh Norton <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KB> "Elvis Christ Superstar" is on a few BBS's. if there's any interest, KB> i might post it here. it cabalistically PROVES that elvis is the KB> current lord of the aeon. And my mother is his bride! So like who am I? Right. Love is the law, love under will. Don ... This tagline is just for Kayla... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: GROVE WATCHER Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 12 Aug 93 12:43:00 Subject: NO! Not the anti depressants! UpdReq -=> Quoting Beorn to Grizzly <=- Be> Thanks! Starting the process has lifted a big weight off my shoulders, Be> & they're probably gonna start me on anti-depressants. Hopefully that Be> will keep the despair away. As far as anything drastic goes, I think Be> that my pagan beliefs are helping ward that off. I'm the kind of Be> person that captures house flies and lets them loose outside, life is Be> very precious to me, no matter how painful. Beorn, hello! I'm a lay-herbalist, and I hope that I don't get my $0.02 in after you go on teh anti-depressants. But, lemme suggest an alternative to the syntho-drugs that the AMA suggests. Go to your local General Nutrition Center, if you have one, and pick up a bottle of "High Spirits". It's an herbal and amino acid pill that does more than the anti-depressants will, without the side effects. I know that is works, as I have a friend who was going to be put on one of those (IMHO) nasty syntho-drugs for depression. We gave her this pill, and it helped emmensely! Hopefully, you can get the help that you need, no matter what the source! Blessed Be, Grove Watcher ... Proud to be a Pagan! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: GROVE WATCHER Area: MagickNet To: Grendel Grettisson 12 Aug 93 20:25:02 Subject: Odd fellows UpdReq -=> Quoting Grendel Grettisson to Kayla Block <=- GG> I have never heard of any such Suprem Court decision. I'm a member of GG> the Odd Fellows and we exclude women as a Fraternal order as well. We GG> have the Rebekah Lodge for Women (and higher degree men) GG> traditionally. I don't think the Masons or anyone have handled said GG> decision because I think it either didn't happen or hasn't been GG> applied anywhere. As far as I know, it has never been brought up GG> anywhere. GG> Wassail, GG> Grendel Grettisson Grendel, would you tell us some about the Odd Fellows? There is a lodge (?) or whatever-ya-wanna-call-it near my home, and it seems that most of the members that I've seen of the "lodge" are the "Biker" type. I was just wondering what the by-laws, etc are. You know, what the Odd Fellows is about and things like that. Thanks in advance! Blessed Be Grove ... How do I set my laser printer to stun? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Stephen Hovey Area: MagickNet To: Earth Mater 17 Aug 93 11:41:02 Subject: Re: Magick Intro Sent UpdReq At the risk of getting slapped... I bought Scot Cunninghams tape on herbal magick.. He really comes off badly... 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Stephen Hovey Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 17 Aug 93 11:55:22 Subject: Women & Masonry Sent UpdReq Im confused on court ruling to admin women, etc... I thought that groups were founded on commonalities. For instance, a group might form of people of a certain religion, or nationality, or because they like train sets.. Or like mensa, because they all have high IQ's. All of these groups could be classified as discriminatory on the basis used to force a groups like the masons to admit women. I dunno.. I think Im setting myself up to get in trouble! hahaha 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718