From: Earth Mater Area: MagickNet To: Chameleon Rex 8 Aug 93 19:21:06 Subject: Re: Magick Intro UpdReq CR> * Marion Weinstein's POSITIVE MAGIC is good too... Weinstein's book is good but you have to remember to keep brushing your teeth so you dont get cavities! ;-> Almost any of Scott Cunningham's books are good too! His Encyclopedias on Herbs & Crystals are excellent source books. WitchCraft Today is a good intro. ... I don't have a broom. I use the Ritual Dust-Buster. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Beorn Area: MagickNet To: Grizzly 6 Aug 93 12:32:32 Subject: Help!!! UpdReq Gr> Right now she doesn't think there is a problem. Or maybe I should say Gr> she doesn't want to admit there is a problem. If and when I can get Gr> her to admit there is a problem then maybe I can talk to her about Gr> porfessional help. It took me *years* to get to this point. The stigma attached to getting counseling doesn't help much, either. Gr> Good I am glad to hear you have decided to talk o someone. Please Gr> don't don't do anything stupid. Remember you do have friends out hear Gr> in the world of BBS's. Thanks! Starting the process has lifted a big weight off my shoulders, & they're probably gonna start me on anti-depressants. Hopefully that will keep the despair away. As far as anything drastic goes, I think that my pagan beliefs are helping ward that off. I'm the kind of person that captures house flies and lets them loose outside, life is very precious to me, no matter how painful. It's kinda funny: people here always talk about the bad things that happened to them around their initiations. I guess I overdid it, eh? Anyway, I'm just leaving for that Sufi thing, so I'll be off the the nets this weekend. Thanks for listening! ... Wake up little Sufi, wake up! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: MagickNet To: Rakshasa 8 Aug 93 17:18:00 Subject: Re: that tome UpdReq Thus said Rakshasa to Josh Norton concerning Re: that tome: > > Elmer Fudd, with his baby-fat face, his childlike speech impediment, > and > his fondness for spears, guns, and other martial paraphernalia, is a > > symbol of Set's natural enemy the Child Horus aka "Horus the > Younger". > He frequently appears as a warrior and is always intent on > destroying > his enemies in a gloriously bloody fashion. Ra> Really... I would have thought he might be an avatar of Ra> "Harpocwates" because of his constant insistence that Ra> everyone "be vewwy quiet." ROFL! Call him Hewu-Wa-Ha, containing both Hoow-pa-kwaat and Wa-Hoow- Kwuit. Ra> So to which gods do you attribute the Coyote and Ra> the Road Runner? I could see Coyote as Coyote the Ra> Trickster-God... but the Road Runner appears to be a more Ra> natural Agent of Chaos. Wiley Coyote seems to me to be more of a Job figure than a trickster. He's just trying to get himself a meal, like any other poor joe; and no matter what he does, the gods keep giving him the shaft. The Road Runner hardly seems to have enough personality to deserve deification. ... Ooooh you waskely wabbit! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Hobbit Area: MagickNet To: Chris Olmstead 1 Aug 93 16:11:04 Subject: THAT tome UpdReq -=> Quoting Chris Olmstead to Paul Hume <=- CO> How does it get started that they 'buy into' the fraud? CO> Aren't they just young, or new, or still learning the art of critical CO> thought, or all of these? Isn't it worth trying to say to someone who CO> may be hearing it for the first time "Check it out." ? And if they CO> were to try, and find no such book, well, there are lots of books I CO> don't have and can't seem to get. How does it get started? Well I was never exposed to the Lovecraft books until fairly recently. Long before that time I was told by various people about the Necronomicon and how it was an ancient book of black magick. I have seen it used in a ritual and don't want to be put in such a position again. When I touched the book it shocked me. Now of course I know that the book is a work of fiction and the power of that copy had been invested in it by the people who used it but there are many who just haven't been precented with the facts and by the time someone tries to educate them thier mind is made up. After all it worked didn't it? This isn't the only fictional creation that many in the occult community believe in but it is one of the most easily provable as false. And people still believe. Says as much about people as it does about the power of myth, even modern ones. ... "muc ogham could work if you carved them on spare ribs" Padraig 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Hobbit Area: MagickNet To: Robert Pearson 1 Aug 93 16:25:00 Subject: Ouija Board UpdReq -=> Quoting Robert Pearson to Pete Hess <=- RP> So why don't I use it? Because I was able to produce better RP> results without the board. Sure, the ouija would assist me in RP> communicating with the spirit world, but ONLY when I removed some of RP> the anti-possession spells I normally have on (which makes it more RP> dangerous to use). I was also finding my communication limited by the RP> clunky spelling interface that the ouija uses. Finally, I don't like RP> sending out a beacon (announcing my presence) to all sorts of RP> questionable spirits. I agree with everything you say. (you don't see that sentance much on a bbs :)) Would you be willing to share your anti-possession spells or direct me to the books you got them from if they are to involved to post? ... Speak softly and carry a +6 two-handed sword. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Hobbit Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 1 Aug 93 16:36:30 Subject: Re: Weatherfolk UpdReq -=> Quoting Beorn to Kettlingurr <=- -=> Quoting Kettlingurr to Beorn <=- Ke> Well, that's what's happening NOW: too much rain in the Midwest, too Ke> LITTLE rain in the East; the heatwave is even in Eastern Canada! If Ke> you think you can draw some rain East, GO FOR IT! Be> Be> The drought's not too bad here in NJ, but folks down in the South East Be> are really dry. Maybe if we convince Milo that his ex moved to Be> Atlanta... Oh please send a cold front to Florida! It was 99 degrees with 80% humidity here yesterday. AND I don't have air conditioning :(. Or else give me a spell to ward off alligators. I do live on a lake but an 8 ft gator decided to move in last month and the game people won't do anything about it. ... My grandparents went to Atlantis and all I got was this lousy tagline 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Hobbit Area: MagickNet To: Milo 1 Aug 93 17:24:26 Subject: The Milo Problem UpdReq -=> Quoting Milo to NightCreeper <=- Mi> Sorry to inform you that I am 28. Practiced since I was 16. Mi> Hardly a juvi or an unseasoned user. Nor do I care for your attention. Mi> All I wanted was more information, too bad most of you are caught up Mi> in your own ego trips and self-made illusions to share in Mi> conversation. I must agree with the Coordinator and drop this thread Mi> because obviously most of you are incapable of intellectually Mi> stimulating conversation. Milo, You have, in effect, walked into a room full of strangers and announced your intentions to murder someone in cold blood. Then you say that your aim is not so good and while trying to hit your intended target you have killed 20-30 (what was the most recent figure?) people who you have never met and who have never harmed you. How can you reasonably expect us to welcome you with open arms. It makes no difference that your weapon is magick. If you are telling the truth then you are a mass murderer. Did people want to chat with Ted Bundy about how to pick-up little girls or break into dorms? If you are not telling the truth you have a seriously sick mind. You are dangerously obsesed with vengence. My fear is that you might resort to more mundaine means to get it. I pray you get help before you cross that line. Have you never in all your studies heard of Karma or the Law of Return? Frankly I don't care what kind of parlour tricks you can or can't do. I'm not impressed. A child can throw a match in a gas tank but that doesn't make him an explosives expert. Please get help. ... I thought I had attained enlightenment, but it was only a flashlight. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Hobbit Area: MagickNet To: Azoth 6 Aug 93 22:30:34 Subject: THE NECRONOMICON UpdReq Oh! Bravo! ... From the journals of the 1931 Polar Expedition, Miskatonic University 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: The Hobbit Area: MagickNet To: Constantine 6 Aug 93 22:37:54 Subject: Truth and only the truth UpdReq -=> Quoting Constantine to Milo <=- Co> Actually, I'd say you're LUCKY that people don't believe you. With Co> the number of REAL magicians on this board, if anyone honestly Co> believed you were that real a threat, you wouldn't last very long.. Ya know, that point had occured to me as well. I know of at least one magician (not a participant on the bbs) who would consider it a public service to take out someone who was really doing these kinds of things. ... Power corrupts. Absolute power is kind of neat. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Bick Thomas 9 Aug 93 11:57:34 Subject: MODERATOR!!! UpdReq In a msg on , Bick Thomas of 1:266/72 writes: BT> Moderator!!! BT> I usually don't get involved in these stupid debates, but I have BT> had about enough... Please remove Milo from the access list. I BT> think we've all had about enough of his BS. I read this topic to BT> discuss magick with others of like minds, not listen to the BT> raviongs of some sociopathic idiot with delusions of magickkal BT> grandeur. Already done. ttyl Farrell Moderator 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Brian Hicks 9 Aug 93 12:04:34 Subject: ufo UpdReq In a msg on , Brian Hicks of 1:306/31 writes: BH> You are a deranged psychopath if you've seen UFOS. Unless of BH> course you were on acid at the time. Heh! Please be cool when chatting here, eh? Heated debates are O.K., but insults aren't. ttyl Farrell Moderator 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Mark O. Garrison 8 Aug 93 23:32:58 Subject: Women & Masonry UpdReq 93 mark, very interesting info. on masons policies regarding women. now, i am quite curious how the masons have handled/are handling the court decision. as for the masons coming up with other excuses to not admit women, i don't see how they could get away with that. once a supreme court decision is made on sex discrimination cases, at least a few token women would have had to be let in. any masons out there with any info.? 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Fourth Circle 9 Aug 93 04:22:00 Subject: Seattle Herbs UpdReq 93 fourth circle, i was wondering if you, or anyone else up there in the seattle area could tell me the name of a store that i visite about a year ago up there. i believe it was in the u district. tiny little herb and essential oil store. the store is kind of long and narrow with a counter that goes pretty much across the length of the store. they also sell alot of incense there. the reason i ask is because it is one of the few places that i've found that could get siamese benzoin in quantity. any info anyone out there could tell me would be tremendously appreciated. 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Titus Vandessel 9 Aug 93 04:25:48 Subject: THAT tome UpdReq 93 titus, TV> The only book that Herman Slater ever wrote was a TV> wonderful little cookbook TV> called THE MAGICKAL FORMULARY. TV> tvd. ummm...no, i believe that herman wrote at least 3-4 books besides the magickal formulary. sorry i can't recall any titles offhand. ----kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 9 Aug 93 04:30:16 Subject: Ritual? UpdReq 93 christeos pir, CP> Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. NC> I do not belive in rituals, it is to strait forward into evil. CP> So much for Mass. ......or even brushing your teeth!!! 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Kayla Block Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 9 Aug 93 04:35:20 Subject: Elvis the savior UpdReq 93 josh norton, hey! have you by chance seen my "in-depth" report "Elvis Christ---Superstar"? it was originally published in the Baphomet Breeze and has also floated around cyberspace a bit. it sounds like you've been working on the follow-up expose! 93, ---kayla 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Varden 6 Aug 93 09:49:24 Subject: Re: BAPHOMET UpdReq > from this article was an explanation of the words on the Figures > arms. As best I can tell it says "Solve Coagula". Can anyone explain > this? I am very interested in discovering what this means. I have I couldn't tell you what it's meant to mean in context, but a loose translation would be something like: to bring together; to separate or free. (Loose translation of the words themselves off the top; I'm not a scholar). ;> 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: MagickNet To: Chris Olmstead 6 Aug 93 10:01:50 Subject: Re: CHARLES TART UpdReq Hello Chris! I'm planning on photocopying several articles tomorrow (Saturday, 8/6) including Tart's VR article. I'd be happy to kite a copy to you. Tell ya what, I'll throw in a copy of Begelman's criticisms and Tart's response at no extra charge. ;> Net me your address and they should be in the mail by Monday. Don't sweat the postage, I can handle 3 stamps or so without breaking my budget. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 7 Aug 93 10:24:48 Subject: Re: ELVIS THE SAVIOR UpdReq > Hmmm. I've always had a problem with Clarke's Theorem. What > constitutes > "sufficiently advanced" technology? Ans: It looks like magic. If > someone > choses to see it as technology and not magic, then it isn't > "sufficiently" advanced. Circular. The only problem I see with your analysis is this; so far as I can tell, those cultures which practice magic don't really consider it as "magic" (that is, as something sacred, unusual, and special, set apart from the profane realm) but as just another part of everyday life. They don't see a duality between the magical and the mundane... all they know is that they can't explain why this behavior gets results, but it does. I can't explain why, when I pick up the receiver and push a few buttons, I can speak to someone halfway across the country. A primitive man can't explain why, when a shaman curses someone, that person dies shortly thereafter... or why the rains come after the rain dances. My using the phone is, in many ways, on a level with his use of the dance. I suspect that he finds that dance, and its attendant results, no more "magical" than I find getting hold of the right person when I dial the correct number. I know that there are people out there who can explain _how_ phones work. We call them engineers. There are people in the tribe who can explain _how_ the rains come after the dance... they call them shamen (shamans?) Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Adept Kevin T. Filan II* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Grizzly 7 Aug 93 10:26:38 Subject: Re: HELP!!! UpdReq > Thank you for your words and vote of confidence. > > BB > > Grizzly You're welcome... and, _please_ keep us posted on how this all turns out. If support from the peanut gallery makes any difference, I'm sure you'll succeed). Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Adept Kevin T. Filan II* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: V. H. Area: MagickNet To: All 8 Aug 93 10:10:20 Subject: computerized correspondences UpdReq There was some mention in another echo of a computerized 777, which is Aleister Crowley's expanded editionof the Golden Dawn correspondence system. As it happens, I wrote an electronic 777 some eight years ago, and never thought anyone would be interested in seeing it. The reason was that just displaying the tables on a computer is not an improvement over displaying them on paper. I think some sort of real improvement in the features is necessary to attain to superiority over paper, which is a high-bandwidth, easy-to-use storage medium which consumes no electricity and does not fatigue the eyes. I'd like to see some discussion here about what features ought to go into an information-age correspondence system. I'd divide these into Improvements and Paradigm Shifts. For instance, Improvements would include programmed instruction and testing of knowledge of the various tables, better cross-references, more encycopedic entries rather than short cryptic ones, the ability to view data by row rather than by column,the ability to create customized views, and so forth. Paradigm Shifts would actually improve the idea of correspondences by bringing out the full richness of a symbol. For instance, any deity has more than one attribute; in a way, it's a real insult to a goddess to say that she corresponds to the moon, when in fact she may have a dozen other attributes just as important, which would correspond to other symbols. In other words, how could we use electronic information management to bring out the depth of mythological symbols, rather than flattening them to an oversimplified attribution to the tree of life? Looking forward to all of your comments, V. H. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Iktomiwin Area: MagickNet To: Beorn 7 Aug 93 23:24:00 Subject: Ssdhelp!!! UpdReq BE><<***** On 08-04-93, Beorn wrote to Grizzly: *****>> >BB> Gr> want her to..... see what a good person she is >BB> >BB>Maybe you could nudge her towards getting professional help. Just being >BB>there to listen to her is probably the best thing you can do short of >BB>that. Try not to pressure her too much, tho. >BB> >BB> Gr> Anger? Why all the anger if you don't mind me asking.... >BB> >BB>Hold on to your hat...it's not a pretty story: >BB> >BB>I had a bad childhood in a home filled with mental illness. I never got >BB>any support or affection from my parents. I don't *ever* remember getting >BB>a hug from either one of them. We moved around a lot, so I never had >BB>any friends either, in fact I got beaten up a lot (and worse). >BB> >BB>When I got to college, I got heavily into alcohol and drugs. The >BB>combination >BB>of that, my background, and heredity caused me to go over the edge. I >BB>sank >BB>into suicidal depression and what was probably clinical paranoia, but I >BB>never >BB>sought help...I couldn't trust anyone. I managed to roll a car over on a >BB>highway and added injuries and post-traumatic stress to the mix. >BB>Eventually >BB>I flipped out completely when a lightning bolt *just* missed me while I >BB>was >BB>tripping on LSD. BE> I got attacked by a pack of stray dogs on one of the very last trips >I did.... BE>BB>Basically, I am now a very bitter and lonely person. I was just fired >BB>from >BB>my job because of my personality and now have to face the fact that I >BB>will >BB>very likely go bankrupt if I don't find a job. Unfortunately, my >BB>self-esteem >BB>is so low that I'm gonna have difficulty selling myself. Wild thoughts of >BB>suicide alternate in my head with the desire to go join a Monastery. If >BB>there >BB>were Wiccan ones, that is. BE>I could relate similar type stories, but I finally got to the point where it >just didn't matter, OK, I went through some shit, but stull, it doesn't >matter I can leave this life or I can stay. It's entirely my choice to >make. At that point, everything took on a comical tone because no matter >what, it just doesn't matter..... BE>~~~ > * VbReader 1.5 #NR * "We will know for the first time/If we're evil or divi >--- Renegade v06-25 Beta > * Origin: House Draconis - Dallas, Texas! 214-739-6182 (93:9004/1) Beorn, Your post sounded so terribly desparate that I just felt that I had to respond. Please, find a CODA group and get into a twelve step program. Not only will it help you to get through your stuff, It will open you up to many more magickal experiences too. Honestly Beorn, you have to be prepared to have a good relationship. Like attracts like, and like CREATES like. When you are healthy, and content, than you will be able to assist others to be so. Until then, it is very likely that you will do more harm than good. Get well, Cousin. If you wish, I will make smoke for you. Metakuye Oyasin. SLMR 2.1a Press any key to continue or any other key to quit 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Robin Arnhold 8 Aug 93 11:22:00 Subject: Religious Freedom 1 UpdReq RA>Also, a traditional person would never molest or abuse anyone, child or adul RA>The tradition does not allow it. There is NO truth in any blanket statement of this sort. It always depends on how you define "abuse" or "molestation." In some traditional groups, beating children is considered perfectly appropriate and acceptable. I have heard a number of stories from Native women about "Medicine Men" who abused their position for sex. I agree it sounds like Douglas White got screwed by the system, but saying that a "traditional person would never molest or abuse anyone" is like saying that a "christian would never molest or abuse anyone" because "the tradition does not allow it." We all know how "true" that is. OLX 2.1 TD Press any key to continue or any other key to quit 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Christeos Pir 9 Aug 93 14:14:00 Subject: Elvis the savior UpdReq > The scary thing is that you're not only theoretically right, but may be > literally right: I can truly envision a full-blown Elvis cult. Not just > the personality worship we see now, which might only be the beginnings, > but a true religious sect based on it. I think you need to read Womack's _Heathern_, _Ambient_, _Terraplane_, and _Elvissey_. Science Fiction dystopia. Actually, you should read Ambient before Heathern but otherwise the order is "proper" though you don't have to read them sequentially. The world features a huge multinational corporation (Dryco) which manages to dominate what's left of an almost third world America (which is better than the rest of the world). The CEO is an Elvis worshipper. Elvissey discusses some of the various sects as well as featuring time travel to an alternate past universe to snatch a young Elvis. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Grendel Grettisson Area: MagickNet To: Kayla Block 9 Aug 93 14:15:00 Subject: Women & Masonry UpdReq > very interesting info. on masons policies regarding women. now, i am > quite curious how the masons have handled/are handling the court > decision. > as for the masons coming up with other excuses to not admit women, i > don't see how they could get away with that. once a supreme court > decision is made on sex discrimination cases, at least a few token women > would have had to be let in. > any masons out there with any info.? I have never heard of any such Suprem Court decision. I'm a member of the Odd Fellows and we exclude women as a Fraternal order as well. We have the Rebekah Lodge for Women (and higher degree men) traditionally. I don't think the Masons or anyone have handled said decision because I think it either didn't happen or hasn't been applied anywhere. As far as I know, it has never been brought up anywhere. Wassail, Grendel Grettisson 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fir Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 9 Aug 93 21:39:00 Subject: Getting From Point A to B UpdReq Say a person wants to get from point A to point B. Point A is being somewhat new to Ceremonial Magick and Point B is having dialogues with the Enochian Angels. What steps would you suggest an _individual_ take to get from Point A to Point B? Blessed Be, Fir 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: MagickNet To: Fir 6 Aug 93 10:00:62 Subject: Alchemy DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW On 04 Aug 93 07:15:00, Fir had this to say about Alchemy: F> I've got 4 volumes from 1979 of a pamphlet called Parachemy F> published by the Paracelsus Research Society in Salt Lake City, F> Utah. Do you know what that organization is up to these days? Im not really sure...I haven't heard that name for ages now :) :)...I suppose I will look them up today or tomarrow and see if they are still around, and/or see what they have done since '79, (I know that they were active into the mid 80's, as that is when I first caught wind of them) for you. F> Also do you know if The Alchemist Handbook by Frater Albertus F> is in print these days? I haven't seen it in the bookstores and F> I let go of my copy a while back. Samuel Weiser has the 1974/1987 softcover edition of this book still available on their 1993 Back-list. It is listed as ISBN 0-87728-655-8 and runs for $12.50 new. Their phone number for ordering is 1-800-423-7087 or if you would prefer to fax your order, their number is 1-207-363-5799. Serpents Occult also has this very same version available for the same cost...Their number is 1-904-760-7675. Holmes Publishing might have this book in monograph form, if you would prefer that...as it would be significantly cheaper...but I would have to double check my catalogs from them. However, if you would prefer a hardcover edition, they would be the ones to ask. They, I'm sure, should be able to locate a good used hardcover copy for you. Their number is 1-206-771-2701, and their Fax number is 1-206-337-0585. F> Thank you for any information you might have. Blessings, Fir No problem! :) I live only to serve! :) :) I hope that some of this might have been of help... Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Alaric Thuryn Area: MagickNet To: All 9 Aug 93 13:06:04 Subject: Milo UpdReq From: alaric@brewich.hou.tx.us (Alaric Thuryn) Newsgroups: pod.magicknet Subject: Milo In <744267473.AA08833@urchin.fidonet.org> NightCreeper@f811.n170.z1.fidonet.org (NightCreeper) writes: > I do not belive in rituals, it is to strait forward into evil. GASP! You mean to tell me that the Xian rituals of Baptism, Communion, etc. are paths to evil also?!? Does this mean that Pat Robertson is in league with the Devil? Alaric -- Alaric Thuryn alaric@brewich.hou.tx.us "... Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718