From: Lady Timber Wolf Area: MagickNet To: Barbara Kennedy 14 Sep 92 08:59:00 Subject: Re: discussion UpdReq -=> Quoting Barbara Kennedy to Lady Timber Wolf <=- BK> If your message meant you would--I've got quite a few questions! I've BK> been doing reading on my own, an awful lot of books, and everything has BK> gotten a bit mixed up. Books tend to do that quite a bit! BK> First, Wicca is only part of paganism, a 'sect' if you will. It BK> is therefore possible to be a pagan without being a witch, yes? True Wicca has only been around for 50 years or so, as to being a witch, that depends on the person I think. Some folks rather be called Pagans instead of witches due to the derrogatory nature of the term witch in christian eyes. There are some who plainly call themselves Pagan and do none of the magick, And there are some folks who use the term Pagan and witch interchangably. BK> All the 'traditions' I've read about, do they refer to nature BK> religions also, or is that the Craft too? Paganism is a nature religion, alot has been incorporated into it. Different paths of Paganism do have vary quite a bit, what one path follows, another has added, deleted or is entirely different in content. The craft used to mean Paganism but since Wicca was formed the term craft was added to that as well. BK> I've read of a Celtic tradition, but what I've found seems to BK> refer to Ireland, does any you know of look to Scotland? Ah.. the Scottish clan.... I suppose they would be deemed celtic as well with some differences due to being seperate countries, I haven't dwelved into the Scottish clan that much but it might prove interesting to do so! BK> It sounds sometimes as if this can be as hidebound as any BK> mainstream churches--were the divisions cleaned up for the BK> interviewers, or in real life do people do as they wish? BK> Be warned--I've got more! Well... that depends on the individual once again, there are some very neat Pagans who do as they wish so long as they harm none, which tends to lead back to the Wiccan rede, there are some cold blooded Pagans who do as they wish reguardless of harming none, there are some who do clean up their acts in the presents of others, and there are those who go along their merry way trying to make life a little better for them and their families and they still are within the laws! Keep them questions comming! Perhaps others will join in with this discussion! B*B! ... "I say we nuke the site from Orbit, it's the only way to be sure" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nightshade Area: MagickNet To: Rebecca Davis 14 Sep 92 17:10:00 Subject: Introduction UpdReq RD>I am new, too. I need to meet some new poeple. My boyfriends family does RD>not like me because I talk different tahn they think is normal. I try to be RD>quiet but hat is not good enough. They think I care about money, just RD>moneyk, but I care about him, too. RD>I think they don't think Im good enough for him. Now he won't see me and I RD>an't go to his house because his mom makes a big fuss. He is 28 years old, RD>old enough to be his own man! Bummer about your boyfriend, but there's no sense in wishing to change him. I'm a new person for you to meet. Where are you from? I'm in SC. How have you come to travel down these paths? What kinds of magical, mystical things are you interested in? What kind of mundane things are you interested in? I've been involved in paganism for about 20 years as have a number of others on this echo, some even longer and always like to hear other people's story of how they arrived here. It renews the sense of wonder that sometimes gets faded with age. My particular interests are what I call shamanic wicca and physical immortality. On a mundane level, I like to hike and camp, read a lot, and of course visit my favorite BBS's. So tell me some things about yourself. Until later... Nightshade 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Nightshade Area: MagickNet To: Knife 14 Sep 92 17:14:00 Subject: New Student UpdReq KN> I am a new student to the practice of magick and am attempting to teach KN>myself through use of books such as Magick by Phil Hansford and other KN>informational sources (i.e. text files dl'd from this BBS) and would like KN>help in learning it if possible through E-mail. I already know much about KN>the occult through prior studies for basic knowledge however this is the KN>first time I am trying to learn it to practice it and am having problems KN>focusing any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you. I've never figured out how to do net-mail, so unless I make my way to your board, I guess our conversations will have to be public. Let's start out with what specific problems you are experiencing. Is it a problem focusing as in concentration, or are you talking about focusing energy, or are you referring to focus in some other terms and, if so, please specify. I'm sure you'll get some answers, just try to be clear about what you're asking for. Until later... Nightshade 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Michael G. Area: MagickNet To: Frater Eadn, Et Al 14 Sep 92 09:34:00 Subject: Alchemy UpdReq Your question about alchemy wasn't silly, even if some of the subsequent replies were. You have the dubious distinction of being the first person that I've written on MN. My reply is obviously to more than one individual. Pagans and neo-pagans make a big point that they have rediscovered the earth. What's interesting, however, is that "alchemical earth" was described by non-pagans as "invisible", and hermetic philosophy, from which Western alchemy came, was essentially a Fire philosophy. The objective of the alchemists was as different from that of the pagans/neopagans as quantum physics is from Newton. Alchemy is not about "raising yourself to the level of godhead" etc. As if those words meant anything. Regardie used to say--for I worked with R--that the average occultist was an idiot. They talk about planetary sigils and enochian magic without having the SLIGHTEST idea what they are talking about. Regardie used to compare the crowd to a group of adolescent kids who somehow got access to a nuclear powerplant and decided it would be fun to diddle with the controls! Back to ALCHEMY: the alchemists recognized that matter and spirit were not distinct substances. There was only One Substance, that one of the properties of that Substance (call it Prime Matter if you need a name) was that it was a kind of transceiver. With the proper tweaking, the "lead" of that Substance could be turned into "gold." The "metals" symbolize many things, in addition to ;their correspondence with the chakras. By changing the chakra-signatures--by arduous self-work--it was possible to radically change one's state of consciousness and BRING THE GOLD through. This altered state of consciousness wasn't a transitory kind of thing. And it made any psychedelic change of consciousness look pale in comparison. The objective of the alchemists was, in a word, to initiate the very soul of matter itself and to see the "invisible alchemical earth" that was all around them. Their objective was not to "groove with the Goddess." Unlike most occultists, their objective was not sex or power--or to compensate for their intellectual incompetence or feelings of powerlessness. They were instead trying for the gold ring: they recognized that Eden is all around us NOW, and that it is possible to "become a transceiver" for that Edenic mandala. One thing about the gold and the waters and the stone: they are not just REAL, they are also described as LIVING. The Buddhist is concerned only with the enlightenment of "sensient beings," but not about the stones, not about dense matter. The alchemist recognized that ALL things are ALIVE and conscious. His goal was to celebrate that consciousness. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Scott Brush Area: MagickNet To: Rebecca Davis 14 Sep 92 21:22:32 Subject: Re: INTRODUCTION UpdReq I can relate to what you are going through. Although my personal experience with romance is quite limited, I have friends whose relationships have been ruined when their partners discovered their occult interests. There is a frightful amount of lies and ignorance on the subject of occultism. Certainly, there are more than a fair share of conservative, closed minded people who demand that the world and everything in it conform to their narrow expectations. I can only council you to be careful in any relationship involving people who are not sympathetic to our beliefs and cause.---By the way, where are you calling from? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Zebrinon Area: MagickNet To: Tommy Watt 12 Sep 92 16:16:00 Subject: yo UpdReq Coolo! This board has a whole bunch of national echos, so i thought i might find one that you're on. do you think you'll be able to talk jeff into getting the 1-800 number back? And btw, do you have the new MajorBBS yet? How's all that coming along? Say hi yo julie for me! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: rakshasa Area: MagickNet To: Greg Silverman 13 Sep 92 12:37:00 Subject: Re: thanks UpdReq Dear Greg: I have used the Lesser Key of Solomon (Goetia) with some success. The times I used it I wanted to make a change in my objective universe (get a job after a lengthy period of unemployment, get my fiction writing moving along, etc.) and I found that, soon after drawing up the Goetic entities, the desired results happened. I would caution you, though; the Goetic spirits are _dangerous_. The last time I performed a Goetic invocation the boundary between myself as magician and that part of mySelf which I named "Furcas" blurred. (I didn't do the ritual _exactly_ right--I was too pissed off at the person I was trying to put a curse on). He suffered--but so did I. Specifically, I found myself faced with an identity disorder. My personality altered dramatically; I became reclusive, arrogant, and bitter, rather like Joseph Curwen in Lovecraft's _Case of Charles Dexter Ward_. I finally recovered from it (and learned a great deal, not the least of which was don't mess with the Goetia while hot-blooded) after about a year of struggling to determine what parts of mySelf were mySelf and what parts were overlaid onto my natural personality via the Goetic failure. Accordingly, I cannot recommend using the Goetia without a) a _very_ serious purpose; b) considerable precautions; and c) adequate experience in altered states of consciousness and a good knowledge of yourSelf. And I would most emphatically warn against attempting ANY Goetic or Lemegetonic working while under the influence of any hallucinogen!!! I am not exaggerating when I tell you that doing that would be risking a long stay in a mental hospital! If you have any other questions feel free to post them to me and I shall be glad to get back to you as quickly as possible. Xeper and Remanifest Rakshasa aka Setian Kevin T. Filan I* 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 13 Sep 92 09:13:24 Subject: Irish Sources and Stuff UpdReq quoting JOSH NORTON To: ERIN ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ JN}>Did you ever try to learn to SPEAK Chinese? There are lots of words that ... JN}>complex than in Western languages, and very difficult for JN}>English-speakers to get used to. there is a big difference between learning to speak a language and learning to read it. & if you are really looking for languages that are hard to speak try some of the african ones. Some of them have a grammer that makes european ones very simple & straight forward, by comparison. Xeper Jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * Die Entropie des Welts strebt einem Maximum zu. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: MagickNet To: Karl Lembke 16 Sep 92 09:16:38 Subject: Irish Sources and Stuff UpdReq QUOTING From: KARL LEMBKE To: JOSH NORTON ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ KL}>JN>ER> Give me an Oriental language any day of the week! They are simpl KL}>JN> >itself. None of this complicated grammar, these KL}>Except in Japanese. i had forgotten that one Four Different "alphabets" last time a thought about adding it to a repitoire of languages i can claim a smattering of to read. KL}>JN>Did you ever try to learn to SPEAK Chinese? There are lots of words that KL}>I don't know about ER, but I took a year of Chinese in college. KL}>I found it to be a very easy language to speak, and except for the KL}>problem of learning 30 - 50 thousand characters, I would recommend it KL}>as a viable world language. The tonal quality of the language is not you have to learn 30 - 50 thousands words in english so whats the problem < grin > other than each word comes with its own picture. Love Is The Law, Love Under Will. Jonathon * SLMR 2.1a * Do files get embarassed being unZIPped ? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Stephen Hovey 14 Sep 92 07:46:00 Subject: Pagan Seminary UpdReq SH>I think any attempt to formalize would ultimately result in the abuse and SH>corruption evident in deciplines who have oraganized such in the past. SH>In other words, paganism would become as tainted as most of the other SH>religions in the world. It's already in pretty sad shape in some places. Corruption happens when you get more than one person in the same place at the same time. Of course, this doesn't mean we have to set ourselves up with a ready-made system to be further abused. :/ OLX 2.1 TD Press "+" to see another tagline. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Airmid Area: MagickNet To: Josh Norton 14 Sep 92 07:48:00 Subject: Irish Sources And Stuff UpdReq JN>ER> Give me an Oriental language any day of the week! They are simplici JN> >itself. None of this complicated grammar, these JN> >declensions of nouns, these conjugations of verbs, these JN> >exceptions to rules governed by blood temperature and how JN> >hot the moon is. All you have to learn is the character JN> >system. And even it's not as intimidating as it looks. JN> > Erin JN>Did you ever try to learn to SPEAK Chinese? There are lots of words that JN>can only be distinguished by the inflection the speaker puts on them. JN>I.e., whether his voice rises or falls at certain points, and by how JN>much the pitch of the voices changes. This use of tonality is much more JN>complex than in Western languages, and very difficult for JN>English-speakers to get used to. I'm told if you think of it as singing, it suddenly becomes much easier. Western languages don't have that, but lots of the Irish rests in very subtle phonetic differences between words. Missing one of those fadas above the vowels can make you sound =awfully= silly. OLX 2.1 TD All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Windwolf Area: MagickNet To: All 16 Sep 92 16:57:02 Subject: Speaking of languages UpdReq Anyone here speak Welsh? Bore da, WindWolf 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718