From:    The Wizard                             Area: MagickNet
To:      All                                     7 Sep 92 02:14:48
Subject: LOCAL COVEN?                           UpdReq 

Do any of you know of any Wiccan covens around the Vineland, NJ area?
Looking for a reputable one (whatever that means); one that is hetero sexual 
or as accepting of my sexual preference as I am of theirs.
   I think I am at a point where I need community in my development.
        T.Wiz


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From:    Paul Hume                              Area: MagickNet
To:      The Grey Man                            7 Sep 92 10:15:26
Subject: Re: PAGAN SEMINARY                     UpdReq 

Grey Man & Alan -
 I am in the knee-jerk-opposed-to-paid-pagan-clerical-caste camp, and I am 
afraid Alan's prospectus leaves my reflexes unaltered.
 In the "requirements" portion of the document (#1-6) my initial reactions are:
1: Pagans who go to non-pagan seminaries: I would have the gravest doubts 
about someone who is so hungry for certification as a "Cleric" that they 
would feel impelled to attend a seminary having little or nothing to do with 
the religion they espouse. If they want the training in counselling, there 
are degree programs in counselling, etc. Attending a seminary implies a 
desire for "God" to sign your diploma, in this context.
 2: Of COURSE Christian seminaries are inadequate to training Pagan priest. 
How surprising.
 3: Don Kraig has a vitriolic article on the dangers of being so fixated on 
"legitimacy" in the eyes of mainstream religion that one proceeds to make 
one's sect of Paganism a cheap copy of Protestant Christianity. See this 
quarter's New Moon Rising.
Does Alan really think a self-proclaimed seminary is going to legitimize 
paganism in the eyes of the population? This suggests that typical American 
neurosis that a certificate/diploma/etc. IN ITSELF confers powers and 
privileges (as it says on mine) "appurtenant thereunto."
 4: This is the sole argument for a meta-organization that makes any sense. 
However, given the dispersed geographic and equally dispersed theological 
nature of Neopaganism, it is arguable that the "community" does not exist in 
a form to allow for the economies of scale Alan lists. Yes, a real community 
is important - no, it cannot be imposed from without by a priestly class.
 5: My blood runs cold at the thought of a bunch of self-proclaimed experts 
(with a diploma, see, ain't it neat?) standing ready to intercept the careers 
of 250,000 new priests and tell them what to believe. The view that in a room 
with 10 Pagans, there are at least 10 Priests present (often more), is of 
course the philosophical core of my objection to proposals such as Alan's.
 6: Without wishing to discount Alan's sincere vocation, this point raises the 
gravest doubts about his suitability for such a role. We see a list of three 
individuals who have taken priestly obligations under false pretenses and WHO 
CANNOT (apparently) HOLD A "REAL" JOB. Yes, all three are also in a dilemma, 
if they have a real vocation to serve their fellows in the religious 
paradigm, but they're solutions (or lack of solutions) shows a lack of moral 
fiber that is not comforting. If they are capable of living in the broom 
closet and working as clergy of other religions, waiting to jump ship to 
Paganism as soon as they can find someone to PAY THEM TO DO IT, what does 
this say for their belief in the God/Gods to Whom they made the vows that 
presently bind them, and to Whom they apparently wish to make new vows?
 This is obviously the most negative interpretation of the thumbnail cases 
presented, but I must say that to me they bring forth all of Twain and 
Heinlein's most cynical comments on the "professional shaman."
 Paul

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From:    Domi O                                 Area: MagickNet
To:      Erin                                    7 Sep 92 13:18:00
Subject: Sun? Female?                           UpdReq 

There really aren't "exceptions" to aspiration and eclipsis, though there are 
regional differences. I'm not a high-level Gaelic speaker-- sort of 
intermediate. I do use a lot of different materials so that I can be sure of 
what I'm doing-- if five sources from different parts of Ireland all do it 
the same way I feel I'm on fairly solid ground. I have a few older texts, in 
the old alphabet and spelling, and they do seem to do a number of things 
differently. I use Dineen's sometimes to double-check an older spelling or 
meaning. O Donaill's is
good for giving complete idiomatic phrases under their key words, which is 
helpful when I translate a phrase, know perfectly well that each word is 
correct, and yet cannot make sense of the whole.
If you can do Japanese, you are way ahead of me! At least Irish is an 
Indo-European language...
Domi of ADF

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