From: Lord Aslan Area: MagickNet To: Jabberwokky 20 Jun 92 10:35:30 Subject: Evil, A Concept? UpdReq Jabber, I know what you're tallking about as far as the translations go, but just try to tell that to some die-hard fundamentalist who is trying to sell you on HIS concept of God and get a little donation for his church. The CONcept of one's religion being the ONLY way to get to heaven is utterly silly. I believe that as long as you're faithful to whatever you believe, you will find your way. Take it easy and the youngest says "Uggah bagga, mama da". Blessed Be. Lord Aslan 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: Karl Lembke 20 Jun 92 16:36:00 Subject: Re: FUCK YOU? YOU SUCK? UpdReq KL>I find that the only people who seem to have any real concern about Satan KL>or Satanism are those who at least sort of believe in It anyway. (I KL>refuse to dignify It by calling it "Him".) (I'm a bit handicapped, having KL>gotten access to the board after the original post dropped off the end.) Karl: Thanks for the reply. Actually, you'd probably be surprised to see the message that inspired all of this. It was a couple of lines saying "You satanists, fuck you. You suck!" And that's =all=! While I'm quoting from memory, that's almost exactly what s/he said. It's amazing that a message that took maybe five seconds (and no thought) to compose has inspired so many hours of debate. From that, almost everyone assumed that s/he was a Christian who was dumping on PaganFolk. My messages were directed towards these knee-jerk assumptions in the responses--which sounded frighteningly similar to the knee-jerk assumptions of the person they were attacking (albeit much more eloquent). KL>When I argue with people over opinions regarding Satanism, whether the KL>bone of contention is Paganism or Dungeons and Dragons, I try to use KL>judicious and reasoned responses. Not with any hope of trying to convince KL>the blindly faithful, but with the intent of making a positive impression KL>on anyone who happens to be eavesdropping. Absolutely. I agree. It took me a couple of years of frustrating debate, of feeling that I was convincing no one, before a few lurkers spoke up and I found I =was= convincing them. They just didn't waste the bytes on a message that said "I agree". (Don't you hate messages that say that and nothing else?) Mac P.S. Merry meet! ___ X SLMR 2.0 X Don't Let THEM Imminentize the Eschaton!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: John Gialuco 20 Jun 92 16:56:02 Subject: Our Reality UpdReq JG>It seems that you are using a validity on channeling that only you are JG>comfortable with in regards to the prrof. "YOU CREATE YOUR JG>OWN REALITY" - means that if you need proof to feel safe JG>with your experience then you will need to create or find a JG>litmus test that suits your ego, or go find a scientific JG>type entity that will ease your doubts. John: Thanks for the replies. If I may attempt to speak for the nay-sayers here (always a risky proposition [grin]), the problem of authenticity is a great one. Mind you, I'm not accusing you or your friends of either lying or being deceived, but you must admit that in any movement as large (and potentially profitable) as channeling has become, there are bound to be many charlatans amongst the honest--either those who would take away your money or who would dominate you to satisfy a pathological need for power. Remember when "Ramtha" advised "his" followers to buy horses sold by J. Z. Knight (who "channels" "Ramtha")? Because of this very real problem, there must be some way to verify the honesty of a channeler or channeled entity. It is not because I am failing to choose love over fear and mistrust, but what do you say to the followers of someone like "Ramtha" after having spent thousands on one of J. Z. Knight's horses? I was merely asking about the method you use. Mac ___ X SLMR 2.0 X First I Must Sprinkle You With Fairy Dust *********** 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: William Mclaughlin Area: MagickNet To: Jabberwokky 20 Jun 92 17:13:04 Subject: Evil, A Concept? UpdReq JA> Actually, the Judeo-Christian religion never really had a JA> Hell in it until quite recently. JC writings spoke of a grave, JA> and the lack of eternal life, but an actual place of torment JA> did not exist until the "modern" translations were made. The JA> problem was, three ( or, maybe it was four ) words were all JA> translated as the word "Hell". Jab: The words you are referring to are: Hades (Greek), Gehenna (Greek), and Sheol (Hebrew). Hades is a hole in the ground where the dead are buried. It is for this reason that Christians assert that Jesus spent three days in Hell (Hades) before the resurrection. He was simply lying in the tomb, not hobnobbing with Lucifer. Gehenna refers to the valley of Hinnom (sp?), which was used as a garbage dump by the people of Jerusalem. In addition to burning garbage there, the bodies of criminals were also dumped and destroyed. In the New Testament, it is used to symbolically represent the souls of sinners which would be destroyed by God (destroyed, mind you, not tormented eternally). Actually, Sheol =does= refer to a place of eternal torment, but is only used in reference to rebellious angels and never to humans. It is, I believe, stretching reason a bit for the Christians to conclude that this place was prepared for any others than angels. Hope this helps. Mac ___ X SLMR 2.0 X Never Whistle While You're Pissing 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mandy Vivian Area: MagickNet To: William Mclaughlin 15 Jun 92 20:07:00 Subject: Re: EVIL, Maybe not??? UpdReq WM> While I share your concern about the planet's WM> problems, I can't help but WM> notice from the above that you've defined happiness in such WM> a way as to make WM> it =absolutely impossible= for you to obtain it. What!! Don't make me laugh, (hehehe) Sorry, it just seemed to come out..I am happy,and it's not impossible to be happy. If I let all this horrible life stuff get me down then I would be six foot under by now myself. WM> In the Eastern tradition, it is said that Heaven and Hell WM> are =both= on this WM> earth. That is to say that they are both inside our heads. Now, I agree with that,but it is also all over the world, I don't mean that there is a line around the world and one one side is HEAVEN and on the other side HELL. There just seems to be too much destruction on this earth to say that it is nearer to heaven than hell. WM> In other words, at some point early in our lives we are told WM> that sunny days WM> are "good" and rainy days are "bad". With enough repetition, WM> we come to WM> accept it and forever after are condemned to feeling lousy WM> on rainy days. Well, I'm not sure I believe in that, I like Rainy days as much as Sunny days, and I daresay that alot of people feel that way too. WM> "Having the means" to be happy means only to have the Will WM> to become so. That has been put very nicely, I agree with alot of the things you say,but they proberly have different meanings for each of us. It was good to hear from you, Farewell, Mandy. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: MagickNet To: Hendrik Bohm 18 Jun 92 11:33:00 Subject: Text Files UpdReq Hi Hendrick, here`s the address :- Black Dog Productions, PO Box 4ZY, London, W1A 4ZY. 5 1/4`s or 720K 3.5`s please. Look forward to hearing from you. Thanks. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation Area: MagickNet To: Ian Harper 19 Jun 92 10:43:50 Subject: Article UpdReq Ian, I'm doing an article on Pagan BBSs for the Wiccan. Would you contact me with details of your BBS if you want to be mentionned in it. Ta D 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Neuro Sonic Area: MagickNet To: All 20 Jun 92 01:26:54 Subject: Fiction Mythos UpdReq Recently in the Magazine Green Egg, the Church Of All Worlds, had an article related to the covert Thelemic meanings of "Stranger in A Strange Land". It also contained an article speaking about using Science Fiction as a basis for Mythos in Magickal ceremony. (Pagan ETc..) I wonder if anyone has done any work creating material for summoning structures involving RPG characters, Comic Book Heroes and Villians, Fantasy Fiction etc... Seeing how influenced our youth magick culture is in Lovecraft, I wonder if anyone has worked with the forces in M.Moorcocks novels. The story of Melnibone reminds me of Crowley's Lost Continent. Anyone read the parallels in Clive Barkers "Great and Secret Show" or "Imagica", these are great "the great work that is" Neuro Sonic 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Anthra Andromda Area: MagickNet To: All 19 Jun 92 09:16:02 Subject: Software testers UpdReq * Forwarded from "Thelema" * Originally by Anthra Andromda * Originally to All * Originally dated 19 Jun 1992, 9:16 Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. I'm writting a major program to assist in Qabalistic and other general Magick work, but I need three or four others to help test it and give me ideas for additional features. So...if anyone is interested, and has EGA/VGA graphics and a mouse, let me know. For your efforts you will receive a control (no registration required) copy of the finished program. The half-finished 'alpha' version is already of some value as an aid in Magick. BTW, it used several of Crowley's Libers as its data base. Love is the law, love under will. --Anthra-- 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Crat 20 Jun 92 20:31:58 Subject: Re: The 2nd Coming! UpdReq 93 Crat! You might enjoy reading "The Dead Sea Scroll Deception". Shed's a whole new light on Jesus. Love is the Law. Gerald ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Myerra Area: MagickNet To: Josh 19 Jun 92 13:14:18 Subject: Re: MAGICKNET TEST UpdReq Receiving you in So Cal!! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: MagickNet To: Anthra Andromda 21 Jun 92 13:03:22 Subject: Re: Software testers Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of 19 Jun 92 9:16:03, Anthra Andromda said to All=- (regarding Re: Software testers) AA> I'm writting a major program to assist in Qabalistic and other general AA> Magick work, but I need three or four others to help test it and give AA> me ideas for additional features. AA> So...if anyone is interested, and has EGA/VGA graphics and a mouse, AA> let me know. For your efforts you will receive a control (no I would be very interested. Count me in! ... California has its faults, but at least it's lively. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Tony Iannotti Area: MagickNet To: Gerald Del Campo 21 Jun 92 13:04:02 Subject: Re: The 2nd Coming! Sent UpdReq -=In a missive of Sat 20 Jun 92 20:31, Gerald Del Campo said to Crat=- (regarding Re: The 2nd Coming!) GDC> You might enjoy reading "The Dead Sea Scroll Deception". Shed's a Who is the author? Have you read John Allegro (The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross) on the Dead Sea scrolls? ... Kether is the Malkuth of the Unmanifest. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Phoenix Area: MagickNet To: Northern Lights 21 Jun 92 01:02:34 Subject: Greetings UpdReq Greetings from the folk(s) in Houston. Phoenix 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Peter Giordano Area: MagickNet To: Chris Feldman 21 Jun 92 21:32:58 Subject: Re: Fuck You? You S... Sent UpdReq I didn't mean Crowley, but some of those that came after him. I know a couple of them personally, much to my great dismay. Peter Giordano 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718