From: Pagan Federation Area: MagickNet To: Black Dog 26 Mar 92 03:10:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq -=> Quoting Black Dog to Pagan Federation (UK) <=- >I'm afraid that in the UK there have been a number of genuine >Pagans who have had their children removed by the authorities >because of their beliefs. BD> Is this still happening? As you stated in another message, the BD> press have not been slow to point out that most of this stuff BD> is blatant propaganda, especially the daily and sunday mail. It is still happening, but I'm not heavily involved in that side of the PF so I don't know what's the latest state of play. The cases I'm refering to are not ones which have been in the press as "satanic abuse" and have been quite "low key", though still traumatic for those involved. >have come to court, the families have been reunited. BD> Rightly so. No mention of compensation, i suppose? None > and a number of judgements are now on record stating that >practicing Paganism is at best a valid religion to at worst >no more harmful than any other faith. BD> have you access to these? They would make superb presents for BD> several people i know :-) No, seriously, if you could "hand" BD> them on, i`d be delighted to display them in the tower. ORCRO is your best bet for those, I will see if I can get hold of any though, (You will probably need to chase me for these in about a week) :-Dee ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: All 26 Mar 92 10:50:00 Subject: Joseph Campbell's books UpdReq I'm trying to track down "the Way of the Seeded Earth" by J Campbell. Its impossible to get here in the UK, as it was never published here. Does anyone know where I might get it in the States and an idea of the price. Thanks ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: MagickNet To: Pagan Federation 27 Mar 92 00:21:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq Hi Dee, >It is still happening, but I'm not heavily involved in that >side of the PF so I don't know what's the latest state of play. That`s bad. Thanks for the info. >ORCRO is your best bet for those, I will see if I can get >hold of any though, Is it still being published? i`ve got a couple of old issues, but haven`t seen a new one for ages. see`ya BD 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Steve Brown Area: MagickNet To: Static 29 Mar 92 17:56:10 Subject: demon-shape UpdReq * In a message originally to All, Static said: SS> psychic fair recently in Tulsa, OK a lady told me about a SS> strange critter that harasses her boyfriend. It seems a SS> half-beautiful/half-ugly male demon astrally-projects her SS> boyfriend to scenes of suffering. I have studied my various SS> sources of data on such matters and have yet to ID it. I can't say that I have much experience in this as such, but as to *any* form of protection I can offer the small amount of knowledge. You don;t mention what religion (if any) this boyfriend is. If he is Pagan I would suggest that he uses a form of the Lesser Banishing Ritual of The Pentagram to clean the area of nasties. Another method which appears to work well for me is to completely seal himself (spiritually not physically!) in a some sort of container that is lockable from the INSIDE and inpenetrable from the outside ( I use a picckling jar with the handles on the inside ). Thus the nasty would not be able to get into the jar and take him off somewhere else. I must stress that he needs to find a method that he is happy with, one that he has TOTAL confidence in. Also, if for some reason he finds that this thing comes along again, basically just tell it to go away and not to come back (the terms used may be stronger!). Failing that, give me his name and location and something to describe him (a netmail I would suggest for that) in order that I can send a couple of my chaps over to help him against this. I look forward to your reply, and hope the information given is helpful. Cheers, Steve Brown. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: Black Dog 27 Mar 92 02:54:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq I beleive ORCRO (the Occult Response to the Christian Response to the Occult) is still being published. You might have to go to the horses mouth, Chris Bray (should that be asses mouth ;-D) at the Sorcerer's Apprentice, 4-8 Burley Lodge Road, Leeds, LS6 1QP, UK ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: MagickNet To: Pagan Federation (UK) 30 Mar 92 12:44:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq The Black Dog runs in a circle, catches his tail, and utters:- Hi there, Thanks for the info.. >I beleive ORCRO (the Occult Response to the Christian Response >to the Occult) is still being published. You might have to go >to the horses mouth, Chris Bray Is Peter, no longer the editor of this worthy publication then ? Cheers, BD 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: Glenn Sieb 31 Mar 92 03:30:00 Subject: Re: Hi ho... Rec'd UpdReq A nice clear ritual, one thing from someon in the UK though, over here though someone or group might work with all of those Goddess and God forms, they would never mix them in the same ritual. To use a computer analogy, it would be like starting 4 separate operating systems symultaniously on your PC and then trying to run your software (the ritual itself). Yes you could do it, but isn't it likely you'd get a UAE as you page whole pantheons in and out just by turning your head :-) ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Pagan Federation (UK) Area: MagickNet To: Black Dog 31 Mar 92 03:38:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq -=> Quoting Black Dog to Pagan Federation (UK) <=- BD> Is Peter, no longer the editor of this worthy publication then ? Well he might be, I always thought it was CB who was in charge. Was Peter the guy who ran the now defunct MagicNet from Cambridge? ... Pagan Federation - desdrw@cix.compulink.co.uk 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: MagickNet To: Markie Chao 31 Mar 92 15:26:00 Subject: religious freedom etc. Rec'd UpdReq Hi Markie, >I just got back from London and things do seem to be going on >as normal. Did I see you at Atlantis books on the Equinox? Possibly, it`s my favourite, they don`t "talk down" at you. They are a little pricey for my liking, at least the magazines are a little cheaper. Who has got twenty five pounds to spend on "Spiritual aspects of Freemasonry", in a recession? Still, they must sell them to someone... >What part of the city do you live in? I wanna go back... Sunny Mile End, that`s near whitechapel and the "city", I guess you could call me an " eastender " :-) >I didn't the first time 'round because I wasn't sure how >they'd like being named, but it's getting to be common >knowledge now. Oh. >The main EOD mailing address has been shut down Is this the "Esoteric Order of Dagon", i never knew they were operating out of london? >See my message in Night Side from Star Hawley(another me) to >All. Aahh, Night side is always "massive", and i only run at 2400, so unfortunately, i`ll have to pass on that one. >I commend your courage, best of luck! Thanks, some would probably say "foolhardiness", but what the "Hec", you have to trust the gods sometimes, right ? Nice to chat to you Markie, A wag of the tail, BlackDog 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Black Dog Area: MagickNet To: Pagan Federation (UK) 31 Mar 92 15:28:00 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. UpdReq Howdy, >Was Peter the guy who ran the now defunct MagicNet from Cambridge? Yes, he had his name down as "editor" too. Just wondering. Cheers, BD 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Camille Lockyer Area: MagickNet To: Danny Harris 6 Apr 92 15:21:00 Subject: Re: Vortex UpdReq > So should I banish these beings before I cast the circle or > after? Or both? At the end of each circle, banish or give leave to depart all that has come in anwser to your sumons and all that has come not in anwser to your sumons. Also ground or "earth" the energies that have been raised. Blessed Be! Camille 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Camille Lockyer Area: MagickNet To: Olorin 6 Apr 92 15:53:00 Subject: spells UpdReq > Are you sure its the same or a harmonic? No, would it be the same or differant in effect, it has the same color and operates at the same speed. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark Newcomb Area: MagickNet To: Windwolf 6 Apr 92 23:34:10 Subject: Re: Hi ho... UpdReq 93! In a message dated 23 Mar 92 22:27:16, Windwolf wrote: MN> I was wondering, might you be the same MN> Windwolf that use to hail out of the S.F. Bay Area MN> some 2 or 3 years ago? W> Nope! Not I! I had no idea there was another Windwolf around! W> I didn't think the handle too common! W> Windwolf Ahh, ok. I knew of a guy named "windwolf" sown here in the Bay-Area some time ago, but he disapeared years ago. Just thought...you know. :) Mark Newcomb Fra.: Michael 111 93 93/93 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: John Shaman Area: MagickNet To: Spider 6 Apr 92 16:16:02 Subject: PC Compatible Astrology UpdReq SP>Hiya folks, I'm not sure if this is the proper echo for this, but it >was as close as I could figure from what we carry locally. I'm looking >for some fairly sophisticated astrology software that will run on a >PC compatible. I need to be able to not only draw up charts, but to >be able to cross two charts as well. Interpretation is not necessary, >although it could be useful. This does *not* need to be freeware or >even shareware; I am perfectly capable of paying for quality software. >Any suggestions? SP> //\o/\\ spider >--- RAMail 2.3 > * Origin: Sir James BBS (510) 430-2865 / CAOAK 3/12/2400 (84:4101/53) There are a couple of BBS's locally that I've heard carry astrology software. I can't find your prefix anywhere. Where are you located? ___ X OLX 2.1 TD X I'll try anything once too often. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Balanone Area: MagickNet To: LORD HADES 6 Apr 92 00:17:12 Subject: Re: HM... UpdReq On 08 Mar 92 22:40:23, LORD HADES posted a message to ALL concerning "HM..."... 08 Mar 92??? The clock on your computer (or your BBS) must be off even more than mine usually is! LH> Hi! :) LH> I just happened to have a quandry...it may be sort of weird... :) LH> Since 'magick' is usually only specifically told to the LH> initiate... or rather the secrets or mysteries are protected or not LH> revealled because of oath or custom or whatever... LH> I guess that I don't know how to finish my question... :) While some details may be given only to "initiates" along any specific path, the more general theories and practices of magic are fairly readily available. Scan the echoes for recommendations that fit your own inclinations. One book you might find useful is Anton LaVey's _Satanic Bible_. It introduces some magic (and philosophy) which isn't too difficult to follow, doesn't require years of study, and yet is flexible enough to allow you to embellish and improve upon it for decades. You can check the occult book review echo for more recommendations. Balanone PP ... With modern technology we no longer make any mistreaks. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Farrell McGovern Area: MagickNet To: Glenn Sieb 7 Apr 92 20:23:12 Subject: Re: Magic(k) Rec'd UpdReq In a lo-rez cyberspace object, Glenn Sieb @93:9400/1 texuralized the following thoughts onto the reality grid of my fav VR co-ordinates: FM> V> Yeah, sure. Umpteen billion people going "Mama mia, mama mia"... FM> V> Get a grip. GS> Oh, I dunno.... GS> GS> I can imagine umpteen billion people singing: GS> GS> Mamma Mia let me go! GS> Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me... :} GS> }:-) Of course, I should put a plug in for "Tie Your Mother Down" and "Crazy Little Thing Called Love" since they are the only two Queen songs that I play on guitar.... ttyl Farrell 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Danny Harris Area: MagickNet To: Steve James 6 Apr 92 16:37:00 Subject: Re: Belief and church UpdReq SJ> 'spiritual and religeous' justification for what they would like to SJ> believe, and so they believe it all the more and so on. True enough while I don't think the church is entirely to blame I think that many people within High positions in the Christian church have supported and still do support many forms of predjudice. I think we must be carefull not to be prejudiced and treat all christians as bad perhaps just slightly misgided. BB Danny 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: MagickNet To: Barak 6 Apr 92 22:43:00 Subject: Sheya UpdReq Brother: If you so will, I'd like to hear more about Sheya. You'd gotten as far as mentioning Dhyanna, and Maggah; about finding the Stillness within, and then building a temple (you didn't elaborate on this). ... "True liberty consists in fearing neither men, nor gods." 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Star Hawley 8 Apr 92 18:06:40 Subject: Re: Freddie... UpdReq In a message dated 03 Apr 92 18:16:04, Star Hawley wrote: GDC> No arguments there. Bohemian Rhapsody is one of my favorites as GDC> well. "I don't want to die, sometimes I wished GDC> I'd never been born at all". Sure is a shame to GDC> see Fredie go. SH> Congradulations, you just made me sob all over my keyboard. There is SH> nothing more powerful than music moving the emotions... Sorry. It wasn't my intention to do that. He was a GREAT human being, and the way he handled the fact he had AIDS demosntrates his sincerety and respect for the people he loved. There should be more Fredie's in the world. ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Tony Iannotti 8 Apr 92 18:06:40 Subject: RE: Re: religious freedo Rec'd UpdReq In a message dated 02 Apr 92 09:34:00, Tony Iannotti wrote: GDC>Hmmmm. No I wasn't aware of that. Heidrick's account WAS GDC>the one I was refering to. As far as I know there isn't GDC>anything else written on the subject :/ TI> There are two accounts by Heidrick, both appearing in the Thelema TI> Lodge Newsletter. I think the second one is the one that points out TI> the errors, but perhaps Tim would be so good as to cite his fears? TI> (Oh no! Not That!) God forbid Tony! Bite your tongue! ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Gerald Del Campo Area: MagickNet To: Moon Puppy 8 Apr 92 18:07:12 Subject: Re: Christian Magick UpdReq In a message dated 02 Apr 92 23:29:55, Moon Puppy wrote: >and in Massqchusetts: > >Apotheosis Camp (OTO) >RR 1 Box 11 South Road >Ashby, MA 01431 > MP> Sorry Gerald, Apotheosis has closed/moved and it's leaders MP> are no longer in Massachussets. There is an active group of OTO south MP> of Boston but I have no address or contact person. Have not heard of MP> Knights Templar Camp so I can't report on it's status. Rhumor has it that there will be another OTO Camp in the works in the very near future in MASS. Hang in there I will notify you as soon as I am able. 93 ... RPSTOVAL Oasis: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Static Area: MagickNet To: Camille Lockyer 5 Apr 92 19:08:00 Subject: Re: Vortex UpdReq What ever you feel is relevant. Treat this as if I am completely new to this data. But, to be more exact: give me the times, places, phenomena. Then I can ask additional questions as they arise. And you will, of course, get a copy of my Journal and an overview of what we do. I am very interested in what you ahve to say. thanx ofr getting back to me. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paul Hume Area: MagickNet To: Lord Hades 6 Apr 92 10:30:42 Subject: Re: HM... UpdReq Hades - Well, yeah, I grant you it was a dazing and confusing post... Specific magical techniques, group rituals, etc. are often protected by oaths of secrecy. This is often the occult equivalent of copyright (g). However, the underlying principles, and (I would venture to say) all of the main "engineering" techniques of magical work are about as secret as a dictionary, as inaccessible as poetic inspiration. Sorry, that was pompous: I mean, the data are available with a small amount of research (a real literary researcher would call it trivial) and the psychological motive force is something each individual finds for himself, regardless of affiliations with orders, circles, etc. So unless you were trying to talk around something you are yourself oath bound from revealing (always a tricky problem in these discussions) there is nothing you can ask that someone here will be unable to answer. If someone has informed you that the real secrets of magick can only be conferred by some muckety muck adept in a secret initiatory setting, you have already learned one valuable fact about the practice of magick: there are a lot of assholes involved in it. In that case, in fact, you have now met two of them: whoever bent your ear about the ineffable arcana, and myself (of the aggressively "real secrets could be tattooed on Bo Derek's tits without violating secrecy, since only those who are "ready" will understand them" school of thought). Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: MagickNet To: Black Dog 9 Apr 92 18:31:58 Subject: religious freedom etc. Sent UpdReq BD> Possibly, it`s my favourite, they don`t "talk down" at you. I was referring specifically to the Equinox party that evening after closing. I met a lot of people that night that I knew by mail or reputation..was wondering if you may have been one of them. BD> guess you could call me an " eastender " :-) Hee hee, I've seen that programme a couple of times... BD> Is this the "Esoteric Order of Dagon", i never knew they were BD> operating out of london? Yes, but they weren't operating out of London, Leeds where all the trouble is. BD> Aahh, Night side is always "massive", and i only run at 2400, so BD> unfortunately, i`ll have to pass on that one. Gasp! Skip Night Side?! Maybe you can get it cheaper from someone closer...? I think Steve Dixon gets it in Essex. BD> "Hec", you have to trust the gods sometimes, right ? Sometimes? Always! Gotta take some risks to make good memories. ;) 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Markie Chao Area: MagickNet To: Pagan Federation (UK) 9 Apr 92 18:46:54 Subject: Re: religious freedom etc. Sent UpdReq PF(> (should that be asses mouth ;-D) at the Sorcerer's PF(> Apprentice, 4-8 Burley Lodge PF(> Road, Leeds, LS6 1QP, UK I had heard that Sorcerer's Apprentice was bombed out, is it back in business? Also, are you familiar with an informative book recently put out by a couple of members of the Pagan Federation on the myths of satanic abuse? 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718