From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 13 Jun 94 12:01:00 Subject: Enochian 101 UpdReq Thus said Kayla Block to Josh Norton concerning Enochian 101: JN> The stuff you describe is precisely the kind of thing you don't want to JN> get thinking about when dealing with the enochian angels. Not because JN> it's true (it isn't) but because it stimulates the less rational parts JN> of your unconscious into throwing all sorts of fears and distortions KB> so far, i can't say that it has caused anything even KB> remotely resembling problems---though your point is well KB> taken. Well, some folks seem to have more of a problem with it than others; I was one of the ones who had more, at one time, and so I'm a bit more focused on the subject. JN> A more typical interpretation of the "sons of God" remark in Genesis 6:2 JN> is that it refers to the time when the god-fearing children of Seth JN> married the women of the godless line of Cain, and the line became JN> gradually corrupted. KB> interesting interp. are you saying that this is the more KB> generally accepted interpretation? Seems to be, from my reading. Though I'm no bible scholar. KB> though i wasn't raised in a religious household, and don't feel that i KB> got overly 'contaminated' with judeo-christian thought in my KB> younger years,i do realize that we live in a judeo- KB> christian society, that is bound to affect us to some KB> extent or another. Unfortunately true. But if it wasn't Xtian stuff, it would be something else. JN> ... Convictions make convicts. KB> and when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns? What!!!?? Don't tell me you didn't recognize this most essential of Discordian principles! Especially when it's so apropos of your comments about our culture. ... Don't ask me, I'm just an Anthropomorphic Personification! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 14 Jun 94 01:10:56 Subject: Enochian 101 UpdReq -=> Kayla Block sent a message to Christeos Pir on 13 Jun 94 00:59:32 <=- -=> Re: Enochian 101 <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KB> hmmm, though the mention may have been brief, do you really find it KB> 'tenuous'? Keep in mind I have only read a fraction of the apocrypha relating to Enoch, but yeah, I'd say 'tenuous.' Aside from the mention in Dee's diary (one of these nights I'll have to look up the reference -- a PITA since the Causabon isn't indexed), what other connection do you see between "Adam's grandson" and, say, _The Vision and the Voice_? KB> don't quote me on this one, but i believe that the reason the KB> apocryphal texts were not included, had more to do with some KB> controversy or another amongst biblical scholars from whatever time KB> period. (if you're interested, i can look into more specifics on KB> that.) Well, not to get off on too much of a tangent, but there's a lot of different possible reasons, depending upon who you read and what their own particular axe to grind might have been. KB> well, even as you mentioned, the angels themselves identified KB> themselves as such. but, even with that aside, why would you think KB> that they were anything else? BZZZZZT! Sorry, the burden of the proof goes the other way. KB> though i don't want to get into the raphael isn't always 'raphael' KB> thing that i got into with TC again, in general, how can you say that KB> any two entities bearing the same name are the same? My point exactly. But there's another side to the Raphael-isn't-always-Raphael thing: that each of us gains understanding according to our particular worldview and what and how we grasp... just because I meet an angel when scrying, and he tells me he is Raphael, doesn't mean that he, and only he, is the one and same entity mentioned in Midieval grimoires. Furthermore, the same entity might come to me as Avalokiteshvara if my worldview were different. That's why what you see in a scrying of TEX won't be -shouldn't be- what I or Larry or Uncle Al or Sam Mathers saw. KB> though i think you know me well enough to know that i don't take the KB> bible as any sort of 'literal truth', i do think that looking at KB> things from as much of an 'historical' context as one can obtain, is KB> useful. "There's no such thing as history." - Crowley KB> in the same manner, if i'm going to be calling on YHVH, (as KB> in the pentagram ritual), i would like to have some idea of who/what KB> this is. the best means that i know of to do this, is to look at the KB> name in its original biblical context. OK, so what is the _strictly biblical_ context -without involving apocrypha or midrashim or other stuff- for relating RAAGIOSL to Satan's minions? };-> Even if there were some connection, how often do incubus hauntings happen these days? My theory is that they were a Midieval phenomenon that had more to do with sexual and spiritual repression and the whole Plague-era fear of life and death. At any rate, I sincerely doubt if you'll find that your fears have any basis when put into practice. I haven't tried the Enochian Sex thang, but I would be surprised -no, shocked- if it suddenly changed. KB> to me, both just seem to be different POV's. mine actually tends to KB> agree more towards yours, though i hope you will excuse me if i play KB> devil's advocate once in awhile. };-] "If music be the food of love, then play on!" KB> christeos, with both this thread and the gayatri one, i just wanted to KB> say that i don't mean to offend. perhaps i'm being overly sensitive KB> due to other things going on in my life at the moment, but i just KB> wanted to say 'PAX, bro!' :) I was afraid that you were taking some of this personally, given the apparent strength of your feelings. I assure you from my heart that it's just a debate, an exchange of views and opinions. My love and respect remain constant, my sister. Love is the law, love under will. - V - ... This I demand for my fee, that I partake of the echo of your kisses. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Fir 14 Jun 94 15:16:02 Subject: Mailed you something UpdReq Thus said Fir to Josh & Christeos concerning Mailed you something: Fi> Hi guys, Hi! Fi> A kind soul lent me 3 issues of Sothis and 1 issue of Starfire Fi> for xeroxing yesterday and I've made the 2 of you copies of Fi> an article in Sothis Vol. I No. III. Thanks much. I'll be looking for it. ... The authentication code is: The dog barks at midnight. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Fir 14 Jun 94 23:15:54 Subject: Mailed you something UpdReq -=> Fir sent a message to Josh & Christeos on 11 Jun 94 10:11:00 <=- -=> Re: Mailed you something <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Fi> A kind soul lent me 3 issues of Sothis and 1 issue of Starfire Fi> for xeroxing yesterday and I've made the 2 of you copies of Got it today -- thanks! Fi> Good luck with the handwriting! No shit! %-* Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... (The Magister saw it and rejoiced in the beauty of it.) 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 14 Jun 94 23:21:22 Subject: Recensa? UpdReq -=> Azoth sent a message to Kayla Block on 13 Jun 94 21:11:29 <=- -=> Re: Recensa? <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Az> I've already sort-of been working on an apectarian bulletin generator, Az> so you could find out the necessary sun-in-whatever and Az> moon-in-whatever and similar stuff at login. I, at least, get tired of Az> banging on my old-fashioned paper ephemeris looking for good Az> aspects.... };-] YEAH! I get tired of trying not to break the spine on my 50-year ephemeris when doing my Record. I've thought several times about doing in on disk instead (for one thing, maybe I could read it again later, unlike my handwriting; for another, it'd actually be faster), but I'd really like to have the ephemeris/aspectarian built into the editor... might have to succumb to Win-doze to do it though. Az> Nah, Merlin's too cool to blow up. He'd just laugh (a laughing cat is Az> a frightening sight to behold...) He does keep me honest, though. One Az> time I didn't properly conclude some Enochian work and Something Az> decided to hang about for a while, unbidden and (mostly) unnoticed. I Az> swear, the cat camped out in front of my altar, staring at a point Az> some two feet over the censer until I formally licensed said Something Az> to be well and truly gone. Must be why he keeps a stern eye on me on my bombing runs by your door! Love is the law, love under will. - CP ... I, even I, have fashioned Thee from a pale image of fine gold. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Fra:. Michael 111 Area: ENOCHIAN To: All 14 Jun 94 14:38:04 Subject: Echo carried UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law Greetings Moderator... This is a general announcement per Net and/or various Moderator requests: This Echo is currently being carried by: Castle Anthrax! Hayward, California - USA (S.F. Bay-Area) 510 - 886 - 9393 Resource BBS to... Ordo Templi Orientis Temple ov Phychick Youth Ordo A:. A:. FidoNet - 1:215/9393 Pods(93)Net - 93:9703/11 ALnet - 31:2000/11 BeastNet - 666:31/11 NovenNet - 60:4100/11 Vervans Gaming Net - 45:502/901 Fra:. Michael 111 Sysop - Castle Anthrax! Love is the Law, Love under Will 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718