From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 3 Jun 94 16:39:18 Subject: PR_Calls UpdReq -=> Kayla Block sent a message to Christeos Pir on 01 Jun 94 03:55:46 <=- -=> Re: PR_Calls <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KB> hi christeos! Hey girlfriend! KB> just wanted to drop you a note to say that i'm finding your PR_Calls KB> paper to be really useful. thanks! Thank YOU. I'm glad if it's of any help. Don't really know why I did it... I just suddenly discovered myself in the midst of it! KB> i was wondering though, when you KB> were figuring out what dee said about the pronounciation, whether you KB> took into account the differences between elizabethan english vs what KB> we speak now? (picky, picky, i know....but i'm just wondering.) Well, not being all that knowledgeable on the subject, I sorta skirted it by pointing out my own twists on things. Laycock (see the Appendix) apparently DID take it into account, which may explain some of our differences. I found that most differences between Laycock and me are either areas of personal preference, areas not covered by Dee's explicit notes, or minor ("dip" vs "deep"), and, as most anyone will tell you, the angels seem pretty forgiving -- after all, it's the letters themselves, not the sounds, that seem to be the most important. (Which explains why even the GD system can work for someone comfortable with it -- which leaves me out.) Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... nor is the Moon contaminated by them that adore the Queen of Night. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 3 Jun 94 11:12:00 Subject: Pr_calls UpdReq Thus said Kayla Block to Christeos Pir concerning Pr_calls: KB> PR_Calls paper to be really useful. thanks! i was KB> wondering though, when you were figuring out what dee said KB> about the pronounciation, whether you took into account the KB> differences between elizabethan english vs what we speak KB> now? (picky, picky, i know....but i'm just wondering.) Oh, that one's easy! Just pronounce everything with an Eastern Kentucky (aka "Appalachian") accent. They're almost exactly the same. ... That was Zen; this is Tao. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 5 Jun 94 15:25:12 Subject: Recensa? UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. KB> hi azoth! Hi! KB> yeah! i knew that i couldn't be the only one to think about KB> it. i would be interested in hearing the reasons why you KB> decided on the version that you chose? was there a KB> particular reason(s) that you rejected the recensa version? I didn't exactly 'reject' the Recensa. It's more precise to say that I was led naturally to the pre-Recensa Table in the course of my special researches. I will confess to being more than a little suspicious of the Recensa's provenance ever since I read in Casaubon the details of how Kelly just wandered off and came back with it an hour or so later. I think I said as much to Josh in a message here a year or so ago. KB> had you previously worked with the recensa tablets? Until this year, I'd worked with no other. Like many other folks (or so I suspect) I initially chose the Recensa because it was the most readily comprehensible, lacking all those variant letters that the G.D. used and presenting a more consistent basis from which to proceed. The A.S. text is based on the Recensa, as is the Hyatt/DuQuette version of Chanokh, so there's no shortage of reference material. In fact, the two colored sets of Tablets I have are both of the Recensa; one was done by me using laser prints of the Enochian Coloring Book, and the other done by Mr. DuQuette (recall the offer made in E.S.M? I wanted to see how an expert would do the job..... };-]) A> James goes so far as to recreate a pre-Recensa Table A> which is consistent with all those Angelick names in A> 'The Book of Supplications &c'. A few months ago I KB> i believe that what you're referring to is the same table as KB> the one that i'm currently constructing a set of tablets KB> from. p.117? That's it. The procedure he used to arrive at that one must've been quite similar to the one I used, basically to start with the Recensa, rearranging the 4 Tablets according to their earliest orientation, then replacing letters as necessary to produce the Names in 'The Book of Supplications &c'. What you end up with is the exact Table used by Dee to generate those names, since the Angelick names are generated by formulae applied to the Table. A> published my own computer-assisted researches into the A> actual differences between the Recensa and this pre- A> Recensa working version. Use of a computer allowed for A> the identification of the several typographical errors KB> can you explain how comparing the 2 different tablets helped KB> to identify typos? Simple logic. Since there is a one-to-one correspondence between the list of Angelick Names and the Great Table which produced it, if I have an identical list of names, then I should also have an identical Table. Since I was comparing not just two Tables, but several Tables and several lists of Names, the exact reasoning is a little more inductive than this would indicate, but that's the basic idea. A> If you like, I can re-post the material here, or the KB> i would love to see it! i was under the impression that Then I shall repost. Incoming! KB> the 'entools' files were some sort of DOS enochian gematria KB> program. have i been missing out all of this time? :) Yup! There's a gematria program in there (and a gnarly text file of all sorts of calculations based on James' Enochian vocabulary) but there's also a cute little program which embodies all of Dee's algorithms for generating Angelick Names from the Great Table (including the Governors, but not Mathers' extensions...yet) which lets you plug in any Table you want and generate all the appropriate Names. That and a few Unix text tools (diff, sort, uniq) make it really easy to experiment with all the available versions of things. Of course, if you don't have a PC or a C compiler (I include source code that works fine on Sun, Apollo, Linux PC's and other similar boxes, as well as DOS and OS/2) all this is not much help, so I included some 'sample' research as well... };-] KB> i'm sure that i would find your researches to be helpful. KB> i'm fairly new to enochian, (being peripherally familiar KB> with it for awhile), but really just starting to learn about KB> it, and just starting to do some enochian workings. the I'm probably no one to ask for advice on 'regular' Enochian working, since I use Enochian as a Mantric language more focused on producing changes in my own mind than calling hierarchies of Enochian entities. My use of the Tablets is also a little weird, since I don't associate them with elements at all, but with directions in space, and use the patterns associated with the Angelick Names as elements in what might be considered a yantra or Enochian mandala. It's all Josh's fault! If his Enochian Temples work hadn't reminded me so strongly of Tibetan visualization and meditation techniques ...... KB> reason that i even thought about going back to the KB> pre-recensa tablets didn't have anything to do with things KB> like consistency with governor's names, etc. i still don't Yeah, given the ... 'percussive'... nature of Enochian work, going back to a version of the Great Table that somebody had to extrapolate from miscellaneous writings is a little spooky. Oh well. No guts, no ..... KB> fully understand how the recensa made certain other things KB> become inconsistent. but, while doing some skrying, i had KB> certain 'unbanishable' critters show up that were KB> inconsistent with the element that i was supposed to be KB> dealing with. i was scratching my head for a few weeks over KB> this, and then started reading a paper of josh's and found KB> out some info about the tablet revisions. instantly, my KB> 'wrong critter's' made some sense since their attributes KB> *were* in alliance with the pre-recensa attributions, and KB> *ding*, i began to question using the recensa tablets. (as Very interesting, indeed. KB> an aside, i had no idea before reading josh's paper that the KB> tablet positions had ever been switched. i thought that the KB> revisions were just changes in some of the letters.) I thought the same thing, until I really started playing around with Dee's other work, KB> would love to hear your thoughts about all of this! (BTW, KB> did you get my netmail that i sent to you about 3-4 weeks KB> ago?) Sure thing. Did you not get my netmailed response? If not, my answer was Yes! Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 5 Jun 94 16:26:22 Subject: Table Diffs UpdReq Hi Kayla! Here's my rant on the differences between Tables. Enjoy! ------------------------------------------------------------- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. The object of this exercise is to evaluate the impact of the Tabula Recensa on the original system of Angelic Names and Words of Power recorded by Dee in that part of Sloane 3191 which was catalogued by Ashmole as the 'Book of Supplications and Invocations'. As the first set of Enochian Tablets in Casaubon are incomplete, and later instructions received for their rectification are confusing at best, the method of obtaining Dee's pre-Recensa working version of the Great Table was as follows: Note: the pre-Recensa Table given by Turner differs by only 2 letters, and in the rearrangement of the separate Tablets about the Black Cross. Neither this Table or the Recensa were the basis of the names recorded by Dee, Turner's footnote to the contrary notwithstanding. 1) The Tablets of the Tabula Recensa of 1587 were rearranged around the Black Cross in conformance with their earliest recorded orientation, with all characters upper-cased. 2) The names recorded in the 'Book of Supplications and Invocations' were then retro-fitted to their proper places on these Tablets, and any resulting changes recorded in lower case. The source of this information was Turner's _Elizabethan Magic_, which references Sloane 3191. 3) The few evident typographical errors in Turner were corrected before the names were fitted to the Tablets: LAOAXRP is given as Laoxrp, which is short one letter. SLGAIOL is given as Lgaial or Slgaich, neither of which agree with the included characters from the 5-lettered name of God. MTA is given as Mto, differing from Ta(g)co on the same line. CPA is given as Cfa, differing from Pa(t)ax on the same line. MRX is given as Mvx, differing from Rx(p)ao on the same line. ERN is given as Era, differing from Rn(a)il on the same line. These mistakes also disagree with Geoffrey James' presentation. 4) A file was generated containing names extracted from the Tabula Recensa, with all letters upper-cased. 5) Another file was generated containing names extracted from the recreated Great Table, with all changes being apparent as lower case letters. 6) The 2 files were compared using 'diff', with these results: Note: The use of some of these Names as 'Archangels', or as 'Elemental Kings' is not found in Dee, to whom they were simply names of God, used by the Magus to enforce his will with those Called, being meant for the 'Kerubic Angels' and 'Seniors', respectively. Similarly, the Invoking and Commanding Names were not angelic entities, but also Names of Power, both meant for dealing with the 'Lesser Angels'. The 'Lesser' and 'Kerubic' designations of the Angelic entities themselves also postdates Dee. 'Seniors' was evidently used by Dee, but we might as well call Them ye Great Olde Ones. There were 28 letters changed on 14 Tablet lines, changing 47 names: 1 Elemental King - God Name of Tablet 2 Commanding Angelic Names - horizontal of dependent cross 4 Invoking Angelic Names - vertical of dependent cross 4 Lesser Angelic Names - beneath the dependent cross horizontal arm 5 Seniors - from the Great Cross of each Tablet 11 Archangelic Names - containing a letter from the Black Cross 20 Kerubic Angelic Names - above the dependent cross horizontal arm 6 Archangelic Names were changed purely as the result of the rearrangement of the Tablets around the Black Cross in the Tabula Recensa; 2 more were changed in this way as well as by other character changes. Note: The planetary and elemental associations used in the following summary are those of the Golden Dawn, have no relevance to the work of John Dee in his 'Book of Supplications and Invocations', and are used here purely as a matter of referential convenience. All names containing lower case letters are from the re-created Great Table; lower.UPPER case pairs refer to the recreated vs. the Recensa characters, respectively. Air Tablet: (5 diffs on 4 lines, 17 names changed) R Z I L A F A v.Y T L P A T O I T T x.Z O P A C O C c.T N A B R V I X G A z.S D N A O C O T T N P R a.N T AAOxAIF AAOZAIF Jupiter Senior of Air NPaT NPNT Lesser Angel, Fire of Air EvTPA EYTPA Archangel, Water of Air HcNBR HTNBR Archangel, Earth of Air HXGzD HXGSD Archangel, Fire of Air vTPA YTPA Kerubic Angel, Water of Air TPAv TPAY Kerubic Angel, Water of Air PAvT PAYT Kerubic Angel, Water of Air AvTP AYTP Kerubic Angel, Water of Air cNBR TNBR Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air NBRc NBRT Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air BRcN BRTN Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air RcNB RTNB Kerubic Angel, Earth of Air XGzD XGSD Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air GzDX GSDX Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air zDXG SDXG Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air DXGz DXGS Kerubic Angel, Fire of Air Water Tablet: (7 diffs on 6 lines, 10 names changed) o.A A l.B C O O R O M E B B T a.O G C O N X M A L G M S A A I z.X A A R V R O I O L A A D a.N G A T A P A N D A Z N x.Z I V A A S A X R I N H T A R N a.D I L SOaIxNT SONIZNT Mercury Senior of Water OlGOTA OBGOTA Invoking Angelic Name, Air of Water IAAASa IAAASD Invoking Angelic Name, Fire of Water oAlCO AABCO Commanding Angelic Name, Air of Water TaCO TOCO Lesser Angel, Air of Water SAIz SAIX Lesser Angel, Air of Water ATAAD ETAAD Archangel, Air of Water ATDIM ETDIM Archangel, Water of Water PMAGL HMAGL Archangel, Earth of Water PNLRX HNLRX Archangel, Fire of Water Earth Tablet: (15 diffs on 3 lines, 19 names changed) r.O o.C c.A a.N n.C c.H h.I i.A a.S s.O o.M m.T A R B I Z M I l.I L P I Z O P A N A b.L A M S M A l.P ICZHhcAL ICZHIHAL Elemental King of Earth LhIANSA LIIANSA Saturn Senior of Earth AcMbICV AHMLICV Mercury Senior of Earth cBALPT ABALPT Invoking Angelic Name, Earth of Earth sPMNIR OPMNIR Invoking Angelic Name, Fire of Earth lLPIZ ILPIZ Commanding Angelic Name, Fire of Earth MSAl MSAP Lesser Angel, Fire of Earth EBOZA ABOZA Archangel, Air of Earth EPHRA APHRA Archangel, Water of Earth Hroan POCNC Archangel, Earth of Earth Hiaom PASMT Archangel, Fire of Earth roan OCNC Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth oanr CNCO Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth anro NCOC Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth nroa COCN Kerubic Angel, Earth of Earth iaom ASMT Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth aomi SMTA Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth omia MTAS Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth miao TASM Kerubic Angel, Fire of Earth Fire Tablet: (1 diff on 1 lines, 1 names changed) O P A M N O o.V G M D N M ALNDoOD ALNDVOD Moon Senior of Fire Problems -------- Cross-comparision of the re-created Great Table with that similarly obtained in James' _Enochian Evocation_ discloses 3 discrepencies: 1) SOaIxNT is SOaIZNT in James. 2) ARINNAp is ARINNAQ in James. In both cases, James' indication of the character is consistent with his Tabula Recensa, although the _Mysteria Magica_ reads the 'p' in Arinnap as well for the Recensa, rather than James' 'q'. The latter reading seems more likely, and is used here. The 'x' in Soaixnt is consistent with Dee's first Table, recorded in Casaubon. Also, Alndood is given in James as Alndvod, which disagrees with Turner as well as James' own reconstructed Table, though it agrees with the Tabula Recensa, and is evidently a typo. Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Kayla Block 5 Jun 94 16:29:12 Subject: Governor Diffs UpdReq Hi Kayla! And here's the one on the Governors' Names. LOL! --------------------------------------------------------------- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. The purpose of this exercise is to evaluate the impact of the Tabula recensa on the system of Governmental names derived from the Enochian Great Table using the table of sigils as an overlay and guide. At the outset, a variety of discrepencies between the several published sources of the Governmental names became apparent. Many differences could be accounted for by noting evident misprints and variants in the reading of single letters or letter combinations difficult to distinguish in the source manuscripts in the Sloane collection. To better gauge the effects of the changes implemented in the Tabula Recensa, several steps have been taken to arrive at a consensus between published sources: 1) The names derived from the use of the Sigils on the Tablula Recensa were typed in and proofed against those similarly derived by Denning/Phillips in _Mysteria Magica_. Note: the Sigil 26 in Crowley's _Chanokh_ disagrees with that given in the other sources, and does not produce the associated Name. 2) The names derived from the use of the Sigils on the Great Table derived in an earlier exercise to recreate the Table used by Dee to produce the 'Book of Suplications and Invocations' were typed into another file. 3) Similarly, names published in Robert Turner's _Elizabethan Magic_, Geoffrey James' _Enochian Evocation_, and Aleister Crowley's _Liber Chanokh_ were entered into separate files. 4) Using 'diff', the differences between the Recensa names and each of the other versions were recorded and tabulated. NOTE: In the table following, evident misprints are indicated by prefixing a '~' to the name; deviance from the consensus is indicated by postfixing a '*', and the several variations in James which happen to agree both with the Recensa names and those from the derived Table are indicated with a '+'. Where the name from the derived Table, and the name from the Tabula Recensa agree, only that from the Recensa is given. ========================================================= Gov Recensa Turner James Chanokh Derived ========================================================= 4 dongnis* doAgnis doAgnis doAgnis doAgnis 6 dialoia* dialIVa ~dialIOAI dialIVa 9 andispi andispi andispi andispi anaispi* 10 thotanp thotanp thotanp thotanF* 11 axxiarg* axZiarg axZiarg axZiarg axZiarg 19 opmacas opmacas opmacas oBmacas* 32 vsnarda vsnarda vsnarda vAnarda* 36 ambriol ambriol ambriol ambriAl* 42 voanamb* Ooanamb Ooanamb Ooanamb Ooanamb 43 tahamdo tahaNdo tahamdo+ tahaNdo 44 notiabi* noCiabi noCiabi noCiabi noCiabi 45 tastozo* tastoXo tastoXo tastoXo tastoXo 46 cucnrpt* cucArpt cucArpt cucArpt cucArpt 47 lauacon ~luacon lauacon+ laNacon 50 aydropt aydropt aVdropt* aydropt aVdropt 56 abriond abAiond abriond+ abAiond 61 chirzpa chirSpa chirzpa+ chirSpa 63 vixpalg vixpaDg* vixpalg vixpalg 64 osidaia* oZidaia oZidaia oZidaia oZidaia 65 paoaoan* paRaoan paRaoan paRaoan paRaoan 66 calzirg calziDg* calzirg calzirg 67 ronoomb ronoAmb ronoomb+ ronoAmb 70 orancir* orCANir orCANir orCAMir* orCANir 71 chaslpo* chIAlpS chIAlpS chIAlpS chIAlpS 78 lazhiim* BazCHim BazCHim BazCHim BazCHlm* 81 crpanib* ~OrpaMb Orpanib ~OrpaMb Orpanib 82 pabnixp* Labnixp Labnixp Labnixp Labnixp 83 pocisni Focisni pocisni+ Focisni 87 gmtziam* gOMziam gOMziam gOMziam gOMziam 88 taaogba* taaogLa taaogLa taONgLa* taaogLa 91 doxmael* dAZINAl doxINAl doZINAl ========================================================= 31 17 2 2 1 7 1 6 17 ========================================================= If the single deviances from consensus are corrected, including 4 of Chanokh and 2 of Turner, and further, the 6 changes indicated for conforming Turner and Chanokh to the James/Recensa/derived, and the 2 remaining changes to Turner/James/Chanokh to conform to the Recensa/derived (including 1 misprint, and 1 total disagreement.) ========================================================= Gov Recensa Turner James Chanokh Derived ========================================================= 4 dongnis* doAgnis doAgnis doAgnis doAgnis 9 andispi andispi andispi andispi anaispi* 11 axxiarg* axZiarg axZiarg axZiarg axZiarg 42 voanamb* Ooanamb Ooanamb Ooanamb Ooanamb 44 notiabi* noCiabi noCiabi noCiabi noCiabi 45 tastozo* tastoXo tastoXo tastoXo tastoXo 46 cucnrpt* cucArpt cucArpt cucArpt cucArpt 50 aydropt aydropt aVdropt* aydropt aVdropt 64 osidaia* oZidaia oZidaia oZidaia oZidaia 65 paoaoan* paRaoan paRaoan paRaoan paRaoan 70 orancir* orCANir orCANir orCAMir* orCANir 71 chaslpo* chIAlpS chIAlpS chIAlpS chIAlpS 78 lazhiim* BazCHim BazCHim BazCHim BazCHlm* 81 crpanib* ~OrpaMb Orpanib ~OrpaMb Orpanib 82 pabnixp* Labnixp Labnixp Labnixp Labnixp 87 gmtziam* gOMziam gOMziam gOMziam gOMziam 88 taaogba* taaogLa taaogLa taONgLa* taaogLa ========================================================= We are left with 2 changes to correct typos in Turner and Chanokh, 2 changes to conform Chanokh, 2 changes to conform Turner/James/Chanokh to the derived table, and 1 change to conform Turner/Chanokh to the James/derived. Summary -------- Of the 91 Governors' names, 31 differ between the various versions and published sources. 14 edited names (all of which involve the change of a single character) produce unanimity with the Recensa, and disappear. 7 edited names (4 of which are single-character, 1 double, and 2 the replacement of a single erroneous character with 2) produce unanimity except with the Recensa. After all this, we are left with 17 inescapable changes introduced by the Tabula Recensa into the system of names of Governors derived from the Enochian Great Table used by Dee to generate the names recorded in his 'Book of Supplications and Invocations'. Coincidentally, it is now possible, by working backward from the names given in the _Mysteria Magica_, to arrive at a consistent set of names appropriate to this Table. Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718