From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 28 May 94 20:35:00 Subject: Enochian beginnings! UpdReq Thus said Christeos Pir to Josh Norton concerning Enochian beginnings!: CP> CP> Hmf... back to square one. Well, ya never know -- you might have a different sort of effect than I did. Wouldn't hurt to try it. ... No wonder you have headaches -- your halo is on too tight. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Ar Aakhu-t 2 Jun 94 00:51:28 Subject: Enochian 101 UpdReq -=> Ar Aakhu-t sent a message to Christeos Pir on 29 May 94 00:52:00 <=- -=> Re: Enochian 101 <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. AA> Again, congratulations! May you catch life with both hands! Thanks! As Rose and I were commenting elsewhere, it's quite a trip to find that these still pack a punch even when you're used to magick! AA> Bonk! Oops! Sorry- what a great choice! I like it- I admit I'd AA> wondered how you came up with it. As usual with magickal names -the "real" ones anyway, IT picked me! It means -aside from the pun on Christopher- "Let there be Holy Ones." (or "...an Holy One.") But, like AC with his "Perdurabo," I'll always be Vitriol: even put it on my application. There's been some speculation in several places as to just what AC's motto for 5=6 was. Regardie puts forth the theory that it was something along the lines of "Cor Christi" (if memory serves). Somewhere else I recall reading another suggestion (by whom, I can't recall right now) that it was "Christeos Luciftias." The other weekend, we were sitting around Paul's after the Minerval inits, and someone wanted to show me something in AC's _Collected Works_ (Vol. II in this case). I opened the book, and about the first thing I saw was a gloss on a particular poem -don't remember which right now, but if it's important I can look for it next time I'm over there- that was signed by "Christeos Luciftias." Doesn't _prove_ that it was his A.M. motto, but still... (In addition to giving me a boost on seeing it! ) Love is the law, love under will. - V - ... when the great God F. I. A. T. is enthroned on the day of Be-with-Us. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Josh Norton 2 Jun 94 00:53:44 Subject: Enochian beginnings! UpdReq -=> Josh Norton sent a message to Christeos Pir on 28 May 94 20:35:00 <=- -=> Re: Enochian beginnings! <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. JN> Well, ya never know -- you might have a different sort of effect than JN> I did. Wouldn't hurt to try it. Yeah, that's what they told me about the microdot, too! Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... O the filthy one! the dog! they cry against thee. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Ar Aakhu-t 2 Jun 94 02:56:08 Subject: Enochian 101 UpdReq -=> Ar Aakhu-t sent a message to Christeos Pir on 29 May 94 00:45:00 <=- -=> Re: Enochian 101 <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. CP> Yeah, magick is a lot like electricity. AA> AA> An analogy I've always liked! Power is power, whatever the form. AA> wise to make a strong magical link before bringing a lot of energy AA> down. Magick naturally seeks the shortest distance between points, the AA> most efficient course to bear the flow, like a stream running AA> downhill. If you just invoke in vague terms it may be easiest to AA> manifest as a lightening bolt through the window- much better to AA> arrange wires with adequate insulation, connections, and even ciruit AA> breakers. It's a question of preparedness, to some extent. But one difference is that some magickal systems can have the same amount of 'juice,' but in practice they 'plug into' different things. To play with our analogy, some are hooked up to the gas, others to the water, others to the tele- communications, etc... Enochian, as I mentioned, seems to 'plug into' more of a benign, and indeed, Divine, system. Others, like Grant's or Bertiaux' (from what I've read), are nothing for the unbalanced to fool with. For this reason, I have no qualms about recommending Enochian to any magician with a little common sense and some understanding of the basics of CM. AA> Oh, oh, Mr Kotter! That's a point which I've chewed a little AA> on. I have trouble taking -both- Enochian as being more than just a AA> synthesis of the magical systemology around then- in short, that Dee & AA> Kelley -really did- contact an external intelligence... ... it AA> bothers me then when it fits mainstream Astrological conventions, the AA> correpondances to all the decans, and running the nice, neat, modern AA> christian-filtered Tree of Life right into it... or was that just a AA> Golden Dawn tack-on? Their tack on enochian bothers me. Me too, that's why I don't use them. Mathers was good for what he was good for , but it's usually not my cuppa. Starting with the pronunciation scheme, and going on through the attempts to attribute everything into a Unified Field Theory -- something that Crowley bought into quite often. Now, I have to first differentiate between my personal experiential knowledge, and what I've heard and read from other modern (read: practicing _now_) magicians. I want to make it clear that almost all of my information in regard to using the elemental tablets falls into the second category: my only experiences with the elemental stuff is one scrying of a portion of the Air of Water, and a couple of invocations of EHNB, the Spirit of Spirit. The majority of my work so far -and I took a "period of silence" through the Winter- has been with exploring the aethyr of TEX. But one thing that seems clear from both my reading and my experimentation: that each person's understanding is necessarily filtered through their present persona as it has developed in their particular life (their Ruach?). So, just as NDE's are different for different people depending on their worldview, so too are the visions and experiences of different Enochian explorers. What Crowley experienced wasn't wrong because it was different from Dee and Kelley's, or Josh's, or my own experiences; it was, however, individual to him. YMMV was never so true. If one expects one's visions to resemble those of the Master Therion, they are only too lokely to do so; and if one's respect for Him induces one to accept such visions as authentic, one is being false to one's soul; the visions themselves will avenge it. The true Guide being gone, the seer will stray into a wilderness of terror where he is tricked and tortured; he will invoke his idol the Master Therion, and fashion in His image a frightful phantasm who will mock him in his misery, until his mind stagger and fall; and Madness swooping upon his carrion, blast his eyes with the horror of seeing his Master dissolve into that appalling hallucination, the "Vision of THE DEMON CROWLEY!" - MT&P, Appendix III After which, no doubt, he stumbles to the typewriter and writes the next volume of "The Advanced Enochian Yoga Workbook." So what the hell am I saying, in twenty five words or less? "Go ahead and try some experiments, test your visions, and keep an open -though not gullible- mind." Oh, yeah, elements/astrology/qabalah and such: - The concensus seems to be pretty clearly in favor of the Enochian system being based upon the four (well, five counting Spirit, of course) elements. - I don't have enough personal knowledge to speak to the planetary stuff, though it came through pretty strongly for Josh. - The attempts by the GD and Crowley to relate Enochian to the Tree seem not to work as well for others, and I'm of the impression that it's a Procrustian tendency on AC's part, rather than anything inherent in it -- not every base-10 system has to dovetail with the QBL, after all! Otherwise I'd have to spend at least 2 1/2 seconds trying to decide which of my fingers relates to Tiphereth, so I'd know what size rings to get. AA> So, okay. What you're suggesting is that all the tablet stuff AA> serves as an elemental anchor for the Aethyr work, just as the AA> pentagram does for planetary work with the hexagram. Similar idea? Well, no, not for me anyway. Despite the fact that they are intertwined (and I haven't really explored that aspect, just had a vision of _how_ they did), they seem almost like two different directions to me. More like the difference between the LBRP and Pathworking, or Chemistry and Astronomy. One looks into how things work here on the material plane and the behind-the-scenes stuff on the astral that makes them work that way; the other looks 'out' to higher and rarer planes. AA> In that case, one of the nice points of a system like, say, AA> the Abramelin, is that it suggests an angle of approach, how to AA> proceed: prepare, cleanse, pray, do the many month thing, successfully AA> invoke HGA, then commence to evoke each of the four elemental 'prince AA> of demons'. Then use the squares with the HGA's guidance. Not AA> an easy routine, certainly. But I wonder what an equivalent course AA> might be in the Enochian systems. Well, this is certainly closer to how Dee spoke of it, and there are people who are apparently working it this way: you'll want to ask Julia Phillips about how Rufus works for some idea of this method. Do you have a copy of Geoffrey James' "Enochian Evocation of Dr. John Dee"? AA> Does it make AA> any difference whether you start by calling on Spirits rather than AA> scryibg the aethyrs? I've heard tales such as: your success passing AA> into successively higher aethyrs depends on your degree of true AA> initiation, and to try higher than you can pass is somehow AA> injurious... Spirits? You mean the 'angels' of the elemental tablets? If so, it's two semi-different things, as I said above. I see no reason, other than personal predilection, for choosing one over the other as a starting place. As to the successive aethyrs = higher initiation theory, this seems to be something that came from AC's personal experiences as he was under- going his transformation to MoT. It certainly isn't in the Dee, AFAIK. AA> I'm trying to excavate what I can think I understand so far AA> about it, hoping you all can help correct or fill in details from your AA> experience. I hope I've been of some little help. I have some 1/2 meg of files on Enochian, and another meg in Josh's Gematria database, if you can read 5 1/4" (1.2 meg) floppies... Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir Fr. Vitriol Io, O.T.O. ... The strong brown reaper swept his swathe and rejoiced. 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: ENOCHIAN To: Josh Norton 1 Jun 94 03:44:36 Subject: Enochian 101 UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. hi josh, JN> Hi Ar! Just to set your mind at rest, I don't give a damn if people make JN> copies of my stuff for their friends, no matter how many friends they JN> have. The only thing I would object to is the sale of it for profit. And that's good! sets my mind at rest, too. baphomet lodge is about to start a series on, (guess what?), enochian. :) i wanted to pass out some of your papers. believe it or not, i'm 'teaching' the first class. (talk about the blind leading the blind!) :\ but, at least everyone has been more than warned about the fact that it's all new to me, too. but, given what i'm planning on talking about, (the structure of the tablets, how the names are derived, etc.), it should go smoothly. JN> ... Now where did I put my Necronomicon Pocket Concordance? LOL! oh, you mean 'strong's exhaustive concordance of enochian'? don't they stock that at waldenbooks? ;> Love is the law, love under will. --k-- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718 From: Kayla Block Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 1 Jun 94 03:55:46 Subject: PR_Calls UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. hi christeos! just wanted to drop you a note to say that i'm finding your PR_Calls paper to be really useful. thanks! i was wondering though, when you were figuring out what dee said about the pronounciation, whether you took into account the differences between elizabethan english vs what we speak now? (picky, picky, i know....but i'm just wondering.) BTW, i went xeroxing today, so i should be getting some stuff in the mail to you within the next few days. Love is the law, love under will. --k-- 201434369420143436942014343694201434369420143436942014343694718