From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Commander Barbarella 22 Aug 93 22:36:00 Subject: Re: 'The Enochian Workbook' UpdReq -=> Commander Barbarella sent a message to Christeos Pir on 20 Aug 93 07:26:07 <=- -=> Re: Re: 'The Enochian Workbook' <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. CB> I, personally, haven't gotten to the point where I'm memorizing CB> anything. I have a hard time pronouncing the words and am therefore CB> "scared" to try them in Enochian. The thinking on that being, if they CB> are pronounced wrong, willl it envoke something other than what I CB> want? I remember a warning about that from somewhere, may have even CB> been in the GD. It's not likely to happen, IMO. If nothing else, I've learned that the Enochian system is so extremely versatile that Intent and Attitude (humility, not hubris) count for a lot more than "proper" pronunciation. I'm in the depths of writing a paper on Enochian pronunciation right now. Other than a deliberate invocation of a cacodaimon (which is really no worse than an elemental spirit -- wilfull and not too bright, from all reports, but hardly "EE-vil"), you're not likely to get burned. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... then shalt thou be cast out into the abyss for ever; 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 22 Aug 93 22:50:28 Subject: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq -=> Mark O. Garrison sent a message to Christeos Pir on Sat 21 Aug 93 10:43 <=- -=> Re: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MOG> Well, a lot of the ideas of Thelema originated firstly with St. MOG> Augustine and later was used and refined by Rabelais and then the MOG> Hell-Fire Club I know what you mean, but I don't agree with the connotations: that Gus somehow "invented" Thelema. A careful reading of more than the wording of a few sentences, something a lot of people who repeat the above don't seem to have done, shows major differences between his philosophy and Thelema as you and I would understand the concept. Rabelais, of course, is almost the opposite of Augustine, as a hedonist and anti-cleric. The Earl of Rosse ("...an indefatigable old rake...") and the others in the Hell-fire Club and its siblings, also was not exactly known for a religious or spiritual stance, something I take as a vital and integral part of Thelema. Not singling you out, y'unnerstand... just one of my pet peeves. MOG> Sacramental Sex and Sex Magick. I am hoping to reprint another run as MOG> soon as I can get a hold of one of our ex-editors who has the masters MOG> for that issue...:) :) Thanks for the feedback though...I am hoping MOG> now to definitely give it a more of a ceremonial feel...Our next issue MOG> will have some new regular columns: ENOCHIANA which will give MOG> information and discuss various issues on the Enochian subject, and MOG> THE SORCERORS SCROLL which will discuss an unpublished grimoire each MOG> issue. (Sigh) Guess I'll have to work some overtime, and send you a check! MOG> If you do come up with anything for any issue, I'd be joyous to I'll keep it in mind. I'm generally more of a kibbitzer than an author, though. MOG> And on a side note, I will be helping MOG> with the production, editing and authourship of another newsletter MOG> soon that is completely ceremonial in view. However, that is all I can MOG> say for now--the project is going to have to be shrouded in secrecy MOG> for a few more months longer. I'll be looking forward to it. Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... Therefore is the Eagle made one with the Man, 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Fir 22 Aug 93 12:26:02 Subject: Whirlpools, vortexes UpdReq Thus said Fir to Josh Norton concerning Whirlpools, vortexes: Fi> JN> value of the letter's name (that is, Cheth, Yod, Tau = 418) is Fi> JN> generally used as a signifier of that union. Hence the significance Fi> of the fact that the JN> invocation was done on April 18 (4/18) and I Fi> awoke from the dream at JN> exactly 4:18 am. Fi> Digital clocks are great for those kinds of syncronicities. Agreed! My subconscious loves them -- I'm amazed at how often I just "happen" to complete a task at 1:11 or 11:11, or at that perfectly discordian time of 11:23 pm (which is 23:23 in European and military time conventions). Fi> I really appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions and to Fi> go into the level of detail that you do. B.B. Fir My pleasure. Of course, I benefit from doing it too -- keeps my brain from narrowing into obsessive focus on whatever my current occupation happens to be. ... Is that quark strange? ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Fir 22 Aug 93 12:30:04 Subject: Order of the elements UpdReq Thus said Fir to Josh Norton concerning Order of the elements: JN> I don't think the order in which you do the tablets matters a JN> great deal; they are all variations on the same theme, and doing one JN> of them will tell you a great deal about how all the others work. Use Fi> Your initial explorations as a basis for picking the element with JN> which you feel the most sympathy, and work on that tablet. Fi> Normally that would be fire, but I expect that you can't Fi> use the same elemental/planetary attributions here. Mmmm. No. There are some differences between the "elemental" aspects of the enochian powers and the elements as they appear through other means (e.g., tattvas, etc.). Experience with them is the best teacher. ... NYC: Hell with a sales tax. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 24 Aug 93 13:01:44 Subject: Re: Trithemius and more UpdReq Hi, Mark! Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. >Yes, the reprints they have been putting out through their FIRST >IMPRESSIONS line are pretty impressive indeed. They are dedicated solely to >the publication of fine deluxe editions of rare works by Crowley and other And, don't forget, 'Quality Paperbacks'! };-] That Smith bio of Dee, e.g.,which, BTW, is only about 115 pages, and at first glance even more un-sympathetic to Dee's magic than Deacon's. For the rest, I'm trying to work out how to afford some of those volumes of AC's poesy. like _Olla_. >related authours. The 1904 Facsimile edition of the Crowley's copy of the >Goetia with full notes and drawings sounds most particularly interesting, >though a $37.50 pricetage (although worth it) I'm sure will have to be given >a lesser priority on my To Purchase List. Till then, I'll have to settle with >the Magickal Childe version. :) :) The only thing, unfortunately about First Catalogue #61 has it at $50! Bloody hell. And it's not as if I really need the thing, either; over the years I've picked up the MagChil, deLawrence,HRT ed. of Wilby, the New Falcon illustrated edition, Shah's and Waite's... and my own working copy, which was destroyed by an Xtian bornagain several years ago. But I digress. };-] >Impressions is that they haven't come out with a handlist for all of the >First Impressions line yet, so as so far, the only way to find out what they >have is to look for their advertisements in Gnosis and keep in periodic >contact with them... I have a terrible suspicion that 'periodic' may soon become 'regular'. List #62 has some great stuff on heresy and Gnostic Xtianity, Arianism and the like. Nothing from First Impressions, but some in Sure Fire Press by Massey. A> hell. Lacunae is a kind word for what's happening to my mind.... > I can definitely relate! :) :) As for the list of aliases, I >searched through Grant, Symonds, Michaelsen, and Robertson (and I think I >even checked Wilson...) in addition...but all to no avail! I'm sure it will Arggh. Don't have any Michaelson, but I just checked the Regardie/Stephenson one, and Suster, and the _Sword of Wisdom_, and Robertson too. Maybe d'Arch Smith? Think I'll line'm all up and do it again, carefully. Christeos Pir is looking now, as well.... >show up again when I no longer need it though! :) :) However, in the CROWLEY >SCRAPBOOK I did find mention of Crowley writting a book titled THE >ROSICRUCIAN SCANDAL under the pseudonym of Leo Vincey...So, I guess that Came across that in Calquhouns's (sp?) book too. Not spelled the same, though,which is interesting. How does the Vinci dictionary compare with the one Regardie did (the one in the New Falcon _Enochian Sex Magick_, anyway?) His was originally the one slated for the Askin book, but he didn't like Laycock's attitude, and so quit the project. A> Might involve a slight monetary quandary, though. All the Askin ... A> _long_ time ago, and I don't equate legality with propriety! >$200! Ouch! That's worse than the going price for King's THE SECRET >RITUALS OF THE O.T.O.! I suppose I will wait for Weiser to get around to Painful, yes? I won't tell you what I paid. It's embarrasing. >republishing it then! :) :) ...As for morality, legality and propriety, I >think I agree wholeheartedly with you on that one (at least as long as I can >get away with it )! :) :) Let it be that state of manyhood bound and loathing. So with thy all; thou hast no right but to do thy will. Do that, and no other shall say nay. For pure will, unassuaged of purpose, delivered from the lust of result, is every way perfect. Al. I.42-44 And so it is, in practice! >learn a little more every day! :) :) My major qualms with Llewellyn is that >gain. It's most painfully obvious that they are not out to serve the occult >community, but to gain from exploiting (though I do honestly think that the >word "exploiting" is far too severe of a word for their situation) it...And >besides, I have seen very little original material come from them as of If their strategy keeps them going through our little depression, then it's hard to fault the logic of 'magical pabulum for the masses', so long as they are thereby funded to publish at least one worthwhile tome per year. Other specialist presses are not having an easy time of it, either. Although I've frequently heard it criticised for rehash and repetition, I've enjoyed Zalewski's books, and those of the Cicero's, and several Denning&Phillips. >hours ranting about Llewellyn. Gee, if I had a 20,000 volume library... Given time.... A> Hmmm. Let's see.... sharp's for knives, flat's for tires, and bass is A> what woofers are for, yes? };-] >That's me and my musical knowledge exactly! But I thought that >you were a musician at one point in time???? Not so's anyone would notice! };-] I've played _at_ it over the years,but never made any real progress, other than catharsis. It's been so long since I last picked up my guitar, that even the calluses are gone. In fact, I've even given away my classical guitars, to better homes! All I've got left is my Canadian Fleur de Lys, unstrung. A> Nice. I did that a few years ago, after I got back from working a A> contract in Saudi. Bought a car, a guitar, and spent the next 2 years A> making sex magick with an ex-best-friend's ex-best-wife. Since then, A> my life's been...interesting. > Hmmm..."interesting" Huh? INTERESTING choice of adjectives there! Hehe. Two years at peak intensity, and the machinery of Life was wound up to run....indefinitely. It just keeps getting better. Now that the engine room's in order, the helm is almost easy! A> writing an Xmodem comm package in Microsoft Fortran on my TRS-80 Model A> I.) >Ahh! Those were the days...when a TRaSh-80 was everything you ever >dreamed of! ;) ;) So what other programs have you written for >application in the study of various occult subjects? I am already interested Nothing that comes to mind. The Enochian stuff has by far been the most useful, since it's driven by Dee's own Enochian algorithms, and gematria is a natural for automated treatment. I just got tired of being mislead by my own mortal mistakes. Of course I've done the usual hacking around with databases and such, but nothing special. So far I've managed to resist the temptation to do anything GUI-like with my tools, since they are perfectly usable as text-generators; you can generate names with one, pipe it into the gematria calculator, and then into 'sort' to get just the right kind of list (or into 'wc' to get a word count, or....) >in the one you have been using to compile the names of Enochian Spirits and >to list word and letter frequencies...By the way, in case if I didn't thank >you already (I have been meaning to, but I have been traveling the last two >weeks and the B.B.S. I work through was down for a couple of days...so >chances are I forgot...), I have been greatly appreciating the information >you have been posting this Echo...I must say that I am most impressed. >Hopefully, I shall put some of it to good use quite shortly...Thank you >again! :) :) I hope it comes in handy. The Enochian entities are extremely forgiving,though! };-] One fellow has already expressed some interest in publishing the 'corrected' names in his grimoire, which might be the first time they've ever been published without 'mistakes'! Hehe. What's a mistake, anyway? A> recently did some quick comparative work on Dee's Enochian names, and A> uncovered so much disagreement in the published sources, that I'm A> about ready to pursue films of Sloane 3191, as well as Logaeth. Even >Wait, before I go any further...Where is that information on the >VOYNICH Manuscript at (rand.org in /pub/voynich...does not compute)? Is that >InterNet? I would be most interested in getting my hands on some more Yup, InterNet. Grendel can probably get some, or you can use your school account to 'ftp' to rand.org, login as 'anonymous', and 'cd' to pub/voynich. There are some interesting things therein, like a Voynich editor, complete with Voynich font (!), a partial transliteration of the Voynich and several bits indexing the various folios, a couple of scans, an article or two.... When I get the time, I'll be setting up a filearea on my BBS for this work, and make it (and other stuff) freq'able. I also came across a fairly complete set of .jpg scans of the Waite deck, on a different system, which makes me wonder a bit about _its_ copyrights. Is it under any current copyright restrictions? Converted to .gif, and reduced by half (the original scans are huge), each card is about 50k, or about 4M for the set. >It sounds as though the information you have come across about the ... >hearing whatever theories or ideas you might have come up with so far...if >you are willing.... No clever theories, yet, but some sense of direction on getting more statistics on the Enochian language. Instead of raw character frequencies,it will be more useful in working with Logaeth to have a detailed breakdown of initial/medial/final usage, variance within proper nouns,etc.. Some of this has already been done for the Voynich. >As for the striking errors between various versions (especially of the >Recensa...Thanks Again for your posts of info.) I too will probably get I've almost finished the new code for extracting the Governors' names,and made the necessary changes to support Dee's system of attribution. I still haven't found much of 'Elemental' consequence in Casaubon,other than a strong suggestion at the outset that the entire Great Table is one of Earth! I've about decided, also, that _Mysteria Magica_ is right in reading the character in the middle of the bottom line of the Tablet of Fire as a reversed uppercase 'P' rather than a lowercase 'q', as in James. And I'm tending toward using the 'x' in Soaixnt, rather than the later 'z' as in the Recensa, at least until I've located the specific instruction in Dee's diaries that changes it from the 'x' used in the first Table. The 'x' in pronunciation in that position wants to come out 'z', anyway. >their various holders in England. Yeah, though, between the Crowleyian school >of thought of testing the Mage and that of the Legalistic school trying to >keep hold of their copyrights, there are numerous errors that are purposely >placed in most translations or transcriptions. You can never be too >sure...best to check yourself. :) :) "There can be nothing but ye liveliest awfulness in those that were called up from imperfect saltes..." HPL, CDW. A> Makes a fellow sick, doesn't it? Vested interest at its best. The >Yes, but now that the Church does not have the power that they once >did, I don't see why entire countries like Israel need cower in fear of Xtian >Catholicism...I fear that now, it has become completely a matter of politics. Institutionalized religion has never been far from politics (check out the early Councils: political decisionmaking at its best!) >field. Hopefully, with the way the Archaeological field is changing, a >fiasco such as happened with the Dead Sea Scrolls will never occur >again...at least as long as we remember the past! :) :) Though, legal >decisions such as the one in Eisenmann and Wise's case, will continue to >haunt the field for as long as politics are an influence in this field! :( :( Which will likely be as long as money changes hands (research grants,purchase of scrolls, etc., etc., etc..) A> Mmmm. The greatest vulnerability of the Alexandria library was that it A> was mostly in _one_ place. Once the data is truly distributed, and A> many copies litter the electronic landscape of many different types of A> machines,guaranteed destruction becomes a practical impossibility, and >This is true...but you know as well as I do how viruses are >transmitted...All it would take is a couple of extra kb's riding "piggy-back" >on a file, and every downloaded or backed-uped copy will be corrupt with the >virus...If the virus had a timed trigger, every copy of that file could be Mmmm. It's a clever virus indeed that can target different CPU's and OS's,from a position on a _text_ file, located on a readonly CD rom or write-protected tape.... A number of my own files exist simultaneously on a Mac, an HP workstation, several PC's and a Sun, not to mention floppy and tape copies, all scattered around 4 or 5 physical sites. And I wasn't even _trying_ to protect them! };-] Of course, an EMP would make hash of most everything that wasn't written down, so keep your hardcopies! };-] Love is the law, love under will. Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718