From: Jonathon Blake Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 19 Aug 93 08:19:24 Subject: Trithemius and more UpdReq quoting MARK O. GARRISON To: AZOTH ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ MOG}>(specializing in Computerized Ciphers). Apparantly this friend of a friend, ... deleted text ... MOG}>are interested or have any background in the occult, in the MOG}>least...one, in fact, is a Xtian! Go figure! :) :) well, if he is in that department, then it does make sense. a number of medieval manuscripts are/were suspected of being encrypted messages, and if they can break any, it shows up the rest of the department. the other interesting thing, is that a few of those manuscripts are used for testing purposes, with either new algorythms for breaking ciphers, or to test an individuals competancy in so doing. 93 jonathon * OLX 2.1 TD * Support your local virgins. << NOT >> 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 19 Aug 93 08:19:26 Subject: Trithemius and more UpdReq quoting MARK O. GARRISON To: AZOTH ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ MOG}>Alexandrian Library online...They already have @1400 texts MOG}>in ASCII format on disk...It is not unwholly reasonable i need to call them, and find out how they intend to distribute that. i didn't realize that anybody had done that yet with occult texts. << wonder if its on cd-rom. >>. 93 jonathon * OLX 2.1 TD * Irony: God gave the tortoise a drag factor of .03 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 19 Aug 93 08:19:28 Subject: Trithemius and more UpdReq quoting MARK O. GARRISON To: AZOTH ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ MOG}>the microfilm, and ask if this is in opposition to any of MOG}>their interests. They will most likely respond, especially could you send us the rest of this messge? that is where it dropped off. 93 jonathon * OLX 2.1 TD * Counting on nothing... The numbers get higher. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: ENOCHIAN To: Commander Barbarella 19 Aug 93 08:19:30 Subject: The Enochian Workboo UpdReq quoting COMMANDER BARBARELLA To: PAUL HUME ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ CB}>best) to get. Here in the Deep South, you just can't go to CB}> * Origin: SS Explorer - Home of RockVision (1:374/777) except that your board indicates that you are from rockledge fl, which isn't that far from one of the better rare book dealers in the country that specialises in occult books. Serpens Occult Books, i think is the name. << i haven't received a catalouge from them in some time so i don't remember the exact name, or address. (: >> 93 jonathon * OLX 2.1 TD * Be still, O my soul! that the spell may dissolve 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Jonathon Blake Area: ENOCHIAN To: Commander Barbarella 19 Aug 93 08:19:32 Subject: The Enochian Workboo UpdReq quoting COMMANDER BARBARELLA To: PAUL HUME ___------------------------------------------------------------------------ CB}>"satanic" garbage. I went into a used book store and CB}>were not for sale. When I asked why they were on the CB}>shelves then, I was told that they were going to be burned. you must have found taht rarest of creatures --- a used book dealer who shows a profit & doesn't need any sales. 93 jonathon * OLX 2.1 TD * Support your local virgins. << NOT >> 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 20 Aug 93 18:44:00 Subject: Altars UpdReq CP> (8 1/2 x 11) to place on the altar. When it's built, that is CP> -- another CP> project I'm getting ready to do in the next few months. (It's Me too. The only saw I own right now is a hacksaw to saw through metal with. I've got 2 tasks at the moment, a double cubed altar and pillars. I've got the Ciceros' book and someone lent me a similar book (out of print) by Robert Wang called The Secret Temple. A round coffee table was always good enough for Wiccan rituals. CP> ... and thy perfume was of musk mingled with ambergris. You've got some of the most interesting taglines! Blessings, Fir 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Fir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 20 Aug 93 18:46:00 Subject: Comselha UpdReq CP> Another frustrated Achad? Zain's also the one who wanted CP> to reverse CP> the positions of Netsach and Hod, if memory serves. You've got me. I used to have all 21 of the little blue books but I sold them off a long time ago. I'm thinking of picking up the astrological ones again though. Blessings, Fir 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Commander Barbarella Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 20 Aug 93 07:26:06 Subject: Re: 'The Enochian Workbook' UpdReq Christeos Pir has been charged with the crime of consorting with Commander Barbarella. The evidence: CP> Now you infer (did too did too... plbbbt!) that those replies CP> don't CP> take into account that someone might be new to such rituals, and CP> that CP> the writers of those posts have forgottten what it was like to CP> be a CP> beginner. CP> CP> For one thing, _I_ don't see myself as anything _but_ a beginner, CP> particularly in Enochian... how, then, could I have forgotten CP> what it's CP> like to be one? CP> CP> For another, is memorizing those Calls in English really all CP> that much CP> easier than learning them in Enochian (which is actually CP> shorter)? CP> Seems to me that if someone, at _any_ level of experience, can CP> memorize CP> the one, they can memorize the other -- barring a mental block CP> against CP> it, of course. CP> CP> Lastly, would you rather learn a system that sort of works, and CP> is CP> easier to memorize, or one that definately works, but might take CP> a CP> little more effort? (Even assuming that it _was_ harder, which CP> varies CP> from individual to individual.) CP> CP> The bottom line, as I'm wont to point out, is in whether the CP> pudding CP> puts pounds on or not. But (purely IMO, of course) you owe it to CP> yourself to try both, and go with what works for _you_. "Do CP> that, and CP> no other shall say nay." CP> CP> Love is the law, love under will. I, personally, haven't gotten to the point where I'm memorizing anything. I have a hard time pronouncing the words and am therefore "scared" to try them in Enochian. The thinking on that being, if they are pronounced wrong, willl it envoke something other than what I want? I remember a warning about that from somewhere, may have even been in the GD. Barb 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Rose Dawn Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 20 Aug 93 07:59:28 Subject: Re: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. >RD> kick back and listen to "The Angels Wanna Wear My Red Shoes." > > Sheesh... now we're back to Elvis again? Aha! Eureka! Elvis *is* god--we just had the wrong Elvis! Pardon me while I wander off to explore this Santoshi... Love is the law, love under will. 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: ENOCHIAN To: Azoth 21 Aug 93 09:08:18 Subject: Re: Trithemius and more UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 18 Aug 93 21:07:06, Azoth wrote: A> I've got another buyer trying to get in touch with Neptune. Holmes did A> have several other bits that I glommed onto with unbecoming A> rapidity,like the first volume of their new AO Spare compendium, and A> an edition of the Goetia made from Crowley's own, containing graphical A> work that is missing from all the other printed editions. Yes, the reprints they have been putting out through their FIRST IMPRESSIONS line are pretty impressive indeed. They are dedicated solely to the publication of fine deluxe editions of rare works by Crowley and other related authours. The 1904 Facsimile edition of the Crowley's copy of the Goetia with full notes and drawings sounds most particularly interesting, though a $37.50 pricetage (although worth it) I'm sure will have to be given a lesser priority on my To Purchase List. Till then, I'll have to settle with the Magickal Childe version. :) :) The only thing, unfortunately about First Impressions is that they haven't come out with a handlist for all of the First Impressions line yet, so as so far, the only way to find out what they have is to look for their advertisements in Gnosis and keep in periodic contact with them... A> Wasn't Leo Vinci one of Crowley's aliases (after, I >If you could remember what it was in, I would be grateful. It would >allow me to fill in a useful lacunae in my memory... A> I quickly glanced through Cammel, Fuller, King and Wilson; nada. I'm A> thinking it must be in either Suster or Symonds, maybe Roberts. Bloody A> hell. Lacunae is a kind word for what's happening to my mind.... I can definitely relate! :) :) As for the list of aliases, I searched through Grant, Symonds, Michaelsen, and Robertson (and I think I even checked Wilson...) in addition...but all to no avail! I'm sure it will show up again when I no longer need it though! :) :) However, in the CROWLEY SCRAPBOOK I did find mention of Crowley writting a book titled THE ROSICRUCIAN SCANDAL under the pseudonym of Leo Vincey...So, I guess that answers part of our question...:) :) MOG> I have never read Laycock's book. I have a general tendency to >I'll have to look into the Askin version then...that way it won't involve a slight moral quandry (The thing about Llewellyn was a joke A> Might involve a slight monetary quandary, though. All the Askin A> edition I've seen or heard of were tagged at over $200. Weiser is the A> one promising to reprint the thing though, and in hardback, as I A> understand. It might be smart to wait a bit. I personally have no A> qualms about making, using or giving away working copies of just about A> anything in my library. Of course I gave up morality, as such, a A> _long_ time ago, and I don't equate legality with propriety! $200! Ouch! That's worse than the going price for King's THE SECRET RITUALS OF THE O.T.O.! I suppose I will wait for Weiser to get around to republishing it then! :) :) ...As for morality, legality and propriety, I think I agree wholeheartedly with you on that one (at least as long as I can get away with it )! :) :) >anyways...after-all, the very first occult book I bought was Michael Donald >Kraig's MODERN MAGICK, so I do, on occassion, purchase their books. I'll >probably even buy Gerald Del Campo's book, once it comes out, as well...). A> But of course! I have quite a few Llewellyn titles, many of which I A> could well have done without, but there are exceptions, as you say A> (Lady Sheba's Book of Shadows was an _early_ purchase). They seem to A> be catering to a slightly different audience than they used to, A> probably for sound financial reasons. They _used_ to have some Crowley A> in print, including Regardie's first edition of _Gems from the A> Equinox_. I honestly did not know about any of the Crowley stuff. Guess we do learn a little more every day! :) :) My major qualms with Llewellyn is that as the holders of the Carl L. Weschcke Library (all 20,000 volumes of it) they keep such a library completely private and slowly publish books that are simply generic overviews or rehashes of these books for obvious monetary gain. It's most painfully obvious that they are not out to serve the occult community, but to gain from exploiting (though I do honestly think that the word "exploiting" is far too severe of a word for their situation) it...And besides, I have seen very little original material come from them as of late...Anyways, I should stop now before I go much further. I could go on for hours ranting about Llewellyn. Gee, if I had a 20,000 volume library... :) :) A> Curiouser, too. There's a notation beside one of those mysterious A> numbers, by Dee, talking about 'middle C'. Was the gematria in terms A> of musical scales, do you think? I wonder if Joclyn Godwin has ever A> Around page 79 of Casaubon, near the bottom of the page, near the A> notation for the first 'C' transmitted (backwards) for Cicle. I look that up, and get back to you on that. :) :) >the Enochian Alphabet being a musical scale is a good a very likely >possibility indeed! Somewhere, I have the Hebrew AlephBeth converted to >musical scale...HHMMM, this is starting me to think...Unfortunately I know as >much about music as I know about cars! :) :) A> Hmmm. Let's see.... sharp's for knives, flat's for tires, and bass is A> what woofers are for, yes? };-] That's me and my musical knowledge exactly! But I thought that you were a musician at one point in time???? A> Hehe. I think most such work will have to wait until I've settled a A> few workaday dilemmas. But my freelance software is doing well,and I A> can at least hope to be in a position to play properly in a couple of A> years, insh'Allah. >where I have not had to work at a "wage slave" job for the past year and a >half, so I have had as much "play" time as I have wanted. So what exactly do A> Nice. I did that a few years ago, after I got back from working a A> contract in Saudi. Bought a car, a guitar, and spent the next 2 years A> making sex magick with an ex-best-friend's ex-best-wife. Since then, A> my life's been...interesting. Hmmm..."interesting" Huh? INTERESTING choice of adjectives there! Sad to say, my life hasn't been as interesting as it has been productive (though to be truthful about it, I spent the first entire year doing absolutely nothing, the last six months I have been trying to make up for lost time )...Well, I guess my last year in a half has had it's moments, here and there! ;) ;) >you program? In what language do you write in? I have just recently begun to >learn C and C++ myself... A> Early on, most everything I did was in assembler, but I've been doing A> C for about 8 years now, and C++ off and on for 3. C's still my weapon A> of choice,with assist from C++ where appropriate. I've worked as A> necessary with 4GLs,DDL/DMLs and the rest, but it's still true that A> you can program Fortran in _any_ language (one of my first hacks was A> writing an Xmodem comm package in Microsoft Fortran on my TRS-80 Model A> I.) Ahh! Those were the days...when a TRaSh-80 was everything you ever dreamed of! ;) ;) So what other programs have you written for application in the study of various occult subjects? I am already interested in the one you have been using to compile the names of Enochian Spirits and to list word and letter frequencies...By the way, in case if I didn't thank you already (I have been meaning to, but I have been traveling the last two weeks and the B.B.S. I work through was down for a couple of days...so chances are I forgot...), I have been greatly appreciating the information you have been posting this Echo...I must say that I am most impressed. Hopefully, I shall put some of it to good use quite shortly...Thank you again! :) :) A> Sounds like the beginning of a plan. };-] Now all I have to do is get A> the film of Logaeth...... >Oh, that reminds me! Was I going to give you the address to the >British Library (or was it the British Museum? I forget! Same block anyways! A> Thanks for the information! I'll attempt to put it to good use. I A> recently did some quick comparative work on Dee's Enochian names, and A> uncovered so much disagreement in the published sources, that I'm A> about ready to pursue films of Sloane 3191, as well as Logaeth. Even A> when I account for misprints and tracers (those errors purposely A> introduced by an author or publisher to unmistakably identify a work) A> there are a lot of bogosities to bebother an honest magickian. Too, A> I've just grabbed some fairly recent Voynich research from rand.org A> (in /pub/voynich) and it's given me some ideas.... Wait, before I go any further...Where is that information on the VOYNICH Manuscript at (rand.org in /pub/voynich...does not compute)? Is that InterNet? I would be most interested in getting my hands on some more information on this text as the only resources I have is a small tract titled, THE VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT: The Most Mysterious Manuscript in the World by J.H.Tiltman and a short essay titled "Roger Bacon and the Voynich Manuscript" by one Prof. John M. Manly. I also have mimeograph copies of about 15 pages from the manuscript itself, however I would prefer to have a little bit more information on said book...If you could help me, I would greatly appreciate it. :) :) It sounds as though the information you have come across about the cipher in the VOYNICH Manuscript and the ideas it has sparked in concerns with Logoaeth might be similar to what I came up with a short while back. My current theory is that if Logoaeth was intentionally fabricated by Dee (unlikely, but still a distinct possibility) or even if it was simply influenced by the information in his subconcious, it is a definite possibility that Logoaeth is encoded with a similar (or possibly same) cipher system as Bacon's VOYNICH Manuscript. After all, we do know from Arthur Dee that Dee did indeed spend much time attempting to decipher this very manuscript...Who Knows!! ;) ;) I would, however, be most interested in hearing whatever theories or ideas you might have come up with so far...if you are willing.... As for the striking errors between various versions (especially of the Recensa...Thanks Again for your posts of info.) I too will probably get around to ordering all of the Enochian Notebooks of John Dee and Kelly from their various holders in England. Yeah, though, between the Crowleyian school of thought of testing the Mage and that of the Legalistic school trying to keep hold of their copyrights, there are numerous errors that are purposely placed in most translations or transcriptions. You can never be too sure...best to check yourself. :) :) >outrageous decision on the suit against Eisenmann and Michael Wise for their >translation of a 2,000 year old text (MMT) by the gentleman (who presumes to >call himself a scholar! ACK!) who simply peiced together twelve fragments of >scroll pieces who claimed (and is now supported by the Israel Supreme Court) >to have sole copyright to this text and any and all translations...I'm not so >sure anymore when it comes to copyright laws! A> Makes a fellow sick, doesn't it? Vested interest at its best. The A> bastards were just pissed that the cat was out of the proper Orthodox A> bag that had smothered research for half a century. Eisenmann and Wise A> may be martyrs to unethical legality, but they've changed history. A> Historically, any research that threatens the status quo in a A> religious state will be suppressed; it has always been necessary to A> _legislate_ facts out of existence (or availability) when they A> obviously conflict with the faith. Yes, but now that the Church does not have the power that they once did, I don't see why entire countries like Israel need cower in fear of Xtian Catholicism...I fear that now, it has become completely a matter of politics. :( :( However, all in all, many good things have come out of all of this...the field of Archaeology--in shame--has begun to place more merits upon individual scholastic works rather than the reputation of a single individual. And because of this, a lot of "green" archaeologists who are truly sincere about the unearthing and discoverie of truth are now able to change the balance of power which was once dominated by so-called "scholars" who by reputation and the political backing of a particular organization (such as the Vatican) previously dominated (and thusly was able to suppress and destroy any found knowledge that conflicted with their interests) this field. Hopefully, with the way the Archaeological field is changing, a fiascoe such as happened with the Dead Sea Scrolls will never occur again...at least as long as we remember the past! :) :) Though, legal decisions such as the one in Eisenmann and Wise's case, will continue to haunt the field for as long as politics are an influence in this field! :( :( >Hopefully! Though, I have heard rumours that there are a few rare ... >virus...thusly burning the library in an altogether different (though just as >effective) way... A> Mmmm. The greatest vulnerability of the Alexandria library was that it A> was mostly in _one_ place. Once the data is truly distributed, and A> many copies litter the electronic landscape of many different types of A> machines,guaranteed destruction becomes a practical impossibility, and A> even One World sociopaths and Clintonian Marxists are just SOL. This is true...but you know as well as I do how viruses are transmitted...All it would take is a couple of extra kb's riding "piggy-back" on a file, and every downloaded or backed-uped copy will be corrupt with the virus...If the virus had a timed trigger, every copy of that file could be destroyed simultaneously! But, this I suppose would take a definite major effort to pull off successfully....and regardless, the Library of Alexandria being On-Line IS still most definitely the best idea of this Millenia! :) :) You are right though...if this endeavour was as half as successful as it could be, it will indeed be one of the greater achievements for Occult Studies in this century, and will most definitely make many people squirm! And they will indeed just be SOL! :) :) Anyways, I need to get to replying to other old messages...so, I shall hopefully speak with you later. Take Care and all... Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: ENOCHIAN To: Christeos Pir 21 Aug 93 10:43:18 Subject: RE: MISC ENOCHIANA UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 19 Aug 93 16:15:05, Christeos Pir wrote: MOG> As for basing a system of MOG> gematria on the frequency of occurence as opposed to simple order of MOG> placement in the AlephBeth, I think it may hold a lot of credence. CP> OK. Before the ASPCA gets on us for equine necro-flagellation, let's CP> just say... "could be!" ...But what's wrong with a little equine necro-flagellation here and there? ;) ;) Point taken though, let's indeed leave it at "Could Be!" :) :) MOG> How are things coming along with Causabon? I prithee that you MOG> aren't having too dificult of a time with that hideous typeface! CP> Actually, it's not too bad. Being interested (understatement) helps, CP> too. Well, that usually does indeed help. Truthfully, I must admit that when I read Causabon's version I must take it piecemeal--about 10 pages at a time before I start to feel tired, fatigued and overwhelmed (between that typeface and Dee's Middle English and frequent usage of Latin phrases...No Wonder!). It has taken me a long while, but I have slowly gotten through it this way. I wonder if anyone has gone through it all in a solitary sitting? I can't possibly imagine! MOG> I don't think that I had ever heard that before. Was that the MOG> motto of the Hell-Fire club, perchance? CP> Heh... I'll have to see what I've got on them. No, it's either from CP> one of AC's Commentaries on AL, or the commentary on the Book of Lies. Well, a lot of the ideas of Thelema originated firstly with St. Augustine and later was used and refined by Rabelais and then the Hell-Fire Club (who it seems had the more definitive concepts, and even had their own Abbey of Theleme). Crowley most definitely had access and most likely researched all three sources...so, it could have come from any of the three. Oh wait, nevermind, I remember now that the Hellfire Club simply used the phrase "Fay ce que voudras" (Do What Thou Wilt in simple French)... MOG> Sure, blame it, and anything else that is convenient, on the MOG> Templars! Why not the Holy Inquisition did just MOG> that! CP> And NOBODY expects... Oh shut up. ;-) I do now! :) :) CP> Oh, hey, thanks for the copy of the newsletter. I found it CP> interesting (liked the Elves ~= Angels article, BTW), though as you said, CP> it's more Wiccan/Neopagan than my personal orientation. If I come up with CP> something, I'll be sure to send it on, though. I ran a newsletter CP> for a couple of years (let's face it, I _was_ the staff), and I know what CP> it's like to be facing a deadline with only half an issue worth of CP> material. No problem. I'm glad that you liked it. I'm sorry that I didn't have any copies of our first issue (Beltaine '93) left, which was on Sacramental Sex and Sex Magick. I am hoping to reprint another run as soon as I can get a hold of one of our ex-editors who has the masters for that issue...:) :) Thanks for the feedback though...I am hoping now to definitely give it a more of a ceremonial feel...Our next issue will have some new regular columns: ENOCHIANA which will give information and discuss various issues on the Enochian subject, and THE SORCERORS SCROLL which will discuss an unpublished grimoire each issue. If you do come up with anything for any issue, I'd be joyous to recieve it...if not, just the same...When it comes to dregging up material for "filler" I can always find poetry and such to take up space...finding more "meatier" material, though, is much more difficult! . ...And on a side note, I will be helping with the production, editing and authourship of another newsletter soon that is completely ceremonial in view. However, that is all I can say for now--the project is going to have to be shrouded in secrecy for a few more months longer. ;) ;) Anyways, I should go. I hope to speak with you later. Take Care. Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: ENOCHIAN To: Crat 21 Aug 93 11:13:18 Subject: Re: Burning computer disks UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 19 Aug 93 13:36:31, Crat wrote: MOG> Just how does one go about "curing" their computer of this most MOG> destructive virus? Sprinkling Holy Water on the Monitor had no visible MOG> effect. C> Perform three anonymous selfless acts and then read the Athanasian C> Creed without giggling (bet you can't get all the way through it C> ). You mean Good Karma that I have saved up won't help! Doing the three selfless acts will be a cinch compared to the reading of the Athanasian Creed without giggling! You ask the near impossible, you do! :) :) You are most likely correct though, I do not seriously think that I could read the Athanasian Creed (especially aloud) without giggling...:) :) I shall try though! :) After all of this, I think that a study into Religious Tolerance might be in due order for myself...that way I won't catch anything that will make me have to read the Athanasian Creed again to get rid of it... :) :) Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: ENOCHIAN To: Jonathon Blake 21 Aug 93 11:19:18 Subject: Re: Trithemius and more UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 19 Aug 93 08:19:26, Jonathon Blake wrote: MOG}>Alexandrian Library online...They already have @1400 texts MOG}>in ASCII format on disk...It is not unwholly reasonable JB> i need to call them, and find out how they intend to distribute JB> that. JB> i didn't realize that anybody had done that yet with occult JB> texts. << wonder if its on cd-rom. >>. It is going to eventually be an On-Line system...it is not going to be distributed (especially on C.D.ROM) at least as they have so planned now...though, there is no reason that this could become so in the distant future...Since you are interested though, here is some further information, as excerpted from The ALEXANDRIAN Issue #2: THE ALEXANDRIAN LIBRARY. We can't reconstruct the ancient Library at Alexandria, but we do plan to create a master bibliography of scholarly publications relating to the Western Esoteric Traditions which can be accessed by authour, title, or subject. We already have over 1200 titles in a computer database which could be easily expanded given time and volunteer support. Since the database will be continually expanding, we'll be able to provide, in the future, up-to-date printouts to members, copies of the bibliography on computer disk, and eventually dial up access via modem. Elsewhere they have discussed expanding this to a file library of these titles, in additon...right now, however, they are restricted by volunteer power and monetary support (I think that at the time I had misread this as being already done, rather than a plan to do such). They are currently setting up an echo on America On-Line and are compiling a list of people with a scholarly interest in Western Esoteric Traditions who have InterNet addresses. They mention that if you wish to see these things materialize, or if you can volunteer time or other support in a particular area, or have further ideas, please contact David Fideler at Phanes Press. Hope this helped clarify things a bit...until things do get well underway though, we will have to remain ever hopeful! :) :) Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Mark O. Garrison Area: ENOCHIAN To: Jonathon Blake 21 Aug 93 11:38:18 Subject: SEPENTS OCCULT UpdReq DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW In a message dated 19 Aug 93 08:19:30, Jonathon Blake wrote: CB}>best) to get. Here in the Deep South, you just can't go to JB> except that your board indicates that you are from rockledge JB> fl, which isn't that far from one of the better rare book JB> dealers in the country that specialises in occult books. JB> Serpens Occult Books, i think is the name. JB> << i haven't received a catalouge from them in some time JB> so i don't remember the exact name, or address. (: >> I have listed the mailing address and phone number below for Serpents Occult...By the way, they just came out with new hand-lists as of 7-25-93. Sepents Occult Books and Supplies P.O. Box 290644 Pt. Orange, FL 32129 (904) 760-7675 Hope this helped...:) :) Love is the law, love under will, Mark O. Garrison 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718