From: Paul Hume Area: ENOCHIAN To: Lt. Commander Roxy 1 Aug 93 11:28:12 Subject: 'The Enochian Workbook' UpdReq Roxy - The SChuelers are generally regarded as "Enochian lite" and while there is some useful stuff in the Workbook, I am afraid it stands indicted in my view for the pivotal reason that the Calls are NOT given in Enochian (which is the point). Invoking the Tablet of Union by intoning "I reign over ye saith the Lord God of Justice, etc." misses the point that the language and the magick are inextricably bound together in this system, and it is simply not the same thing as saying "Ol sonf vorsag goho IAD balt, etc.". Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Azoth Area: ENOCHIAN To: Josh Norton 1 Aug 93 18:52:28 Subject: Enochian and qbl UpdReq Hi, Josh! JN> Heh heh.... or cryptographic gematria? Maybe we've all been puzzling JN> over God's version of those "Cryptoquips" in the daily papers, and the JN> tablets are nothing more than spiritual versions of the New York Times JN> crossword puzzle. ROFL! Just the thing for the Llewellyn New Times! Az> It's even worse than that. In at least one case where the angel gave Az> Dee numeric values, the numeration of one of the letters which Az> appeared twice in the word, was given _different_ values Az> for each occurrence. Not fair at all. JN> Now that brings up some hair-raising possibilities....has anyone ever JN> developed an arithmetic system in which the value of a symbol changes JN> with its position? Gives me a headache just thinking about it. Plenty of cryptographic systems work in just this fashion. Makes me wish I knew more of the angel magic of Trithemius, which has also been billed as straight cryptology, and which certainly influenced Dee. Unfortunately, the only modern edition I know of, that from the Hermetic Research Trust, has become quite as rare as the original, and probably won't be reprinted by Phanes for several years. JN> I've been having an odd intuition for quite some time now. Maybe the JN> _words_ have values, but the letters don't? And the letters don't have JN> any firm correspondences as in Hebrew, but pick up a significance based JN> on the word in which they appear? I've seen at least one quote from the I think this has a certaine merit, but is so far out of the usual approach of gematria, that I question that it really falls within the same realm at all, and doesn't rather tend toward the science of mantric speech as known in the East. Not a surprise! Ever check out Govinda's explanation of Hum? 93 93/93 Az0th 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Christeos Pir Area: ENOCHIAN To: Mark O. Garrison 1 Aug 93 18:28:26 Subject: Re: Enochian Gematria UpdReq -=> Mark O. Garrison sent a message to Christeos Pir on Sat 31 Jul 93 10:39 <=- -=> Re: Re: Enochian Gematria <=- Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. MOG> process, but as I have also been studying the VOYNICH MANUSCRIPT which MOG> Dee had for a short period of time while in Bohemia, I've come up with MOG> some new ideas for the deciphering of some form of numerical key from MOG> LOGOAETH. Well, keep us posted... BTW, did you see Ben's thoughts on the words having numerations, rather than the letters? MOG> It seems that anything I come up with, as it may make MOG> perfect sense to me, is far from absolute. Naturlicht. MOG> Yes, indeed it is fairly expensive. ;> However, you might find MOG> it difficult to read for extended periods of time. I know. But it seems that in the absence of a reprint in modern typeface, something I was whining about a little whine ago, I'll just have to spend the bucks for the Causabon reprint and some reading glasses! Love is the law, love under will. - Christeos Pir ... Then shall thy brain be dumb, and thy heart beat no more, 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718