From: Paul Hume Area: ENOCHIAN To: Manly Man 8 Oct 92 21:26:38 Subject: Ahem UpdReq Manly babe - I am uncertain - are you objecting to an abuse of a "religion" or "church" based on Enochian, or are you trying to do a little preachin' agin' the "Satanists" here? If the former, I would be curious in knowing the basis or your claim, as the Enochian system functions in a context with no overt connction to Christianity. If the latter, fuck off. Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Vitriol Area: ENOCHIAN To: Paul Hume 9 Oct 92 10:09:10 Subject: Ahem UpdReq -=> Paul Hume sent a message to Manly Man on 10-08-92 21:26 <=- -=> Re: Ahem <=- PH> If the former, I would be curious in knowing the basis or PH> your claim, as the Enochian system functions in a context PH> with no overt connction to Christianity. I presume you meant "_can_ function" in such a context. Dee and Kelly's work, as you know, was most definitely done in a Xian context. PH> If the latter, fuck off. A man after my own heart! ... In which dwells Mystery, Babylon; here is her secret place, ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.10 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Crat 9 Oct 92 10:09:02 Subject: Excess UpdReq CR>Would anyone care to express opinions on what they see as the basics of >Enochian magickal workings? Obviously banishings were not "required" >originally, but do they enhance the ritual? Sorry this comment is so late. Just found a board that has this echo. (Hope we can get it on our local BBS when we get PODnet back!) (These are observations from my personal experience, and are NOT asserted as being true for everyone.) Banishings.... I don't find banishings at all useful in connection with the "elemental" Calls. Most of the time, they interfere more than they help. In connection with the Aethyrs, they seem to help quite a bit. Especially if you can devise a ritual that does _not_ use a fourfold elemental theme. Wasn't there a "rose cross" banishing among the G.D. material? Something like that, which "seals" the room without adding any particular flavor of its own. What's really needed to use them..... For everyday work, where you are not looking for any particular result, I find you can dispense with practically everything except the Calls and the associated divine names. No circles, no regalia, no magickal weapons. Typically I do daily invocations sitting naked in a half-lotus on my bed, and it works fine. Even the surrounding environment doesn't matter much -- I've done some of my best work in the plastic drabness of a Hyatt Regency hotel room. One thing I've found really helps. That's to have a copy of the appropriate tablet in front of you when you work, and to spend a few minutes doing a relaxed study of it before starting. Doesn't seem to matter if it's hand-drawn or printed, or whether it uses English or Enochian letters. Even if the tablets aren't "talismans" of the usual sort, they do seem to draw power to themselves, and attract the attention of beings of similar nature. Another thing -- _organized_ work produces greater results than random workings, because you get a cumulative effect from day to day, and also because it demonstrates the seriousness of your interest to the entities involved. Plan out a series of related invocations ahead of time, do each until you have a result you consider satisfactory, and then go on to the next. STICK WITH IT until you have completed the entire plan. >Is Dee's work original >complete, or does it need the later additions of this later work and/or >that of groups like the GD? Help. Dee's work gives all the basics you need to do invocations, but is profoundly lacking in supporting material that would make it a "complete" system of magick. I.e. gematria and symbolic correspondences for the letters, a delineation of the symbolic attributes of individual squares and the various divine names, etc. Most of the later additions to the system -- such as the elaborate G.D. system of attributes -- are intended to make up for these lacks. But my experience tends to indicate that nearly all of them are wrong. The only reason they work is that the angels are very highly accomodating to the will of the magician. You go in expecting to see certain things, and so that is what they give you. At various times, I've done tests to see if these later attributes are correct. This was done by invoking the angels governing a series of related squares _without_ using any system of attributes, and asking the angels to present themselves and their powers in the way they deemed most appropriate. This has been done with Servient, Kerubic, and Great Cross squares, and in _every_ case, the results were different than what the G.D. system says you should expect of such squares, but at the same time wholly self-consistent. The best I can say is that in the long run, you'll probably get more that's useful to you out of Enochian magick if you invoke the angels with no expectations, and let them present things as they chose. In the absence of a deliberate expectation on the magician's part, I find them remarkably sensitive to the needs and nature of the magician. * SLMR 2.1a * Facts? Don't bother me with facts! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: Tesla Coil 9 Oct 92 10:09:04 Subject: Excess UpdReq TC>The Heptangle anthology of Dee's work supplies a series of supplications, >a <> and an oration to God (for daily use) - those, >along with the Calls or Keys, is enough to keep anyone busy! Heh. Judging from Dee's invocations and grimoires from the same period, the idea behind Renaissance magick was that you kept talking until the beings got so sick of it that they answered just to get the magician to shut up. Some of Dee's stuff sounds like a lawyer trying to write a contract so it covers every possible contingency, or someone with a BIG thesaurus and no sense of moderation. * SLMR 2.1a * Does Atlantis have the Buddha-nature? Mu! 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Josh Norton Area: ENOCHIAN To: All 9 Oct 92 10:09:06 Subject: anyone interested? UpdReq If there's anyone out there who might be interested, AND has access to a copy of PageMaker 4.0 and a Postscript printer.... I have a PageMaker file of the Calls set up as a workbook. Each Call with its translation is shown in a large, readable typeface on a left-hand page, with the appropriate Tablet and/or Lesser Angle displayed on the right-hand page. The type is large enough that you can read it at arm's length or greater distance. Just the thing for those who hate doing invocations with their nose buried in a book! None of the contents is copyrighted so you can make (and even sell) as many copies as you want. (The Postscript printer is necessary because the pictures are in Encapsulated Postscript format for clarity. None of that cruddy bitmap stuff.) The file is almost 3/4ths of a megabyte even ZIPped, so I'm _not_ going to do a long-distance upload. But if you want to send me a high-density disk (5" or 3-1/4") and a postpaid mailer, I'll be glad to send you a copy of the file plus the necessary fonts (shareware, not Adobe). Or send me two bucks and I'll use my own disks and mailers. My address is: 146 Congress Run Road Cincinnati, OH 45215-5002 * SLMR 2.1a * "All systems are true" = "no system is true" 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718 From: Paul Hume Area: ENOCHIAN To: Analia 9 Oct 92 17:39:16 Subject: Re: EXCESS UpdReq ANalia - I recently attended Io's for two of our sistren out West, whom you know, and I think it was the 2nd or 3rd time I've been present (not counting my own, when, of course, one is kinda busy to get the whole pattern in perception (g)). Yeah, "Wow" is apt. Makes me sit here, contemplating the approach of my IIIo, and the "grand plan" for the local Camp, and wondering just HOW presumptuous my own intention of getting chartered to initiate may be. Like...can I really handle this kind of voltage? Mumble, grumble, whine. Paul 718499927771849992777184999277718499927771849992777184999277718