Unconditional Security - Another view.   
   
.    I have real trouble with the concept of Unconditional Eternal
Security for a few reasons.  I thought that if you could answer the
question from one point of view, I could take the other side.  I will
go about it using God's characteristics: holy (Isaiah 6:3) "And one
cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts;"
just (Psalm 89:14), "Righteousness and Justice are the foundation of
Your throne;" respecter of freewill (Isaiah 1:18-20), "Come now, and
let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as
scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like
crimson, they shall be as wool.  If ye be willing and obedient, ye
shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall
be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it;"
and wrathful (Revelation 15:17-19), " And the seventh angel poured out
his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple
of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.  And there were
voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great
earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty
an earthquake, and so great.  And the great city was divided into
three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon
came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine
of the fierceness of his wrath."  These characteristics again are
holy, just, wrathful, and respecter of free will.
   
.    What is holy anyway?  Holy is totally pure, incorruptible, set
apart, and sinless.  Man cannot go into God's presence because God is
set apart.  There's only one way to be able to stand in God's
presence.  And that's if we are covered in Christ's righteousness and
holiness.  The only way we can have Christ's holiness is if we are
born again, but as a Christian goes around in the world, he sins.  As
he continues to sin, his heart gets harder and harder if he doesn't
confess his sin and ask forgiveness.  After a while, his heart is so
hard that he doesn't even think about Christ.  Perhaps because he's
having such a good time, but it's more likely that he knows if he
thinks about his sin, he will only feel guilty.  The last step is he
denies he needs Christ.  I know REAL Christians who went on that path.
Just because we are Christians, that doesn't mean we lost that urge to
rebel or blame others.  I am not saying if you sin once or twice, you
will lose your salvation.  That would be foolish and that would
closely resemble the Law that Christ came to save us from.  God looks
at our hearts.  If we become hard, rebellious, and proud, and we don't
even attempt to live like God wants, God has no other choice.  He will
do everything that He can to bring us back, but He won't go farther.
     
.    The next thing is God's Justice.  If we sin and sin and sin, God
requires justice to be carried out.  If a Christian grows cold and
proud, there's no way he would even confess and repent of his sins.
God has to exact punishment from that person.  We can't overlook this
aspect of God.  He requires us to be saved by FAITH and to live by
FAITH.  If a Christian doesn't have faith anymore, he can't please
God.  "But without faith it is impossible to please him (Hebrews
11:6)."  And another verse tells that a Christian can draw back more
explicitly, "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw
back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.  But we are not of them
who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving
of the soul (Hebrews 10:38,39)."
     
.    God absolutely hates sin.  "For thou art not a God that hath
pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.  The
foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of
iniquity.  Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the Lord will
abhor the bloody and deceitful man (Psalms 5:4-6)."  His anger burns
against sin and He won't dwell with that person.  If the person
continues, he is in danger of provoking God to wrath.  Again I stress
that God won't leave a person if that person sins once or twice.  That
is going back to the Law.  I mean the Christian who continues in sin
and doesn't confess his sin and want to change.  His heart gets harder
and harder, so it will be harder and harder to humble himself, confess
his sin, and ask forgiveness.
     
.    Finally we get to God's respect of freewill.  He won't force us
to accept Christ.  After all, we weren't created robots.  Using the
same reasoning God won't ever force us to keep His gift of redemption.
We always have the choice.  Christians know once they are saved, their
names go into the Book of the Lamb.  However it's possible for God to
blot out a name.  Look in Exodus 32:32,33, "Yet now, if thou wilt
forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book
which thou hast written.  And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath
sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." "And if any man
shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall
take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city,
and from the things which are written in this book (Revelation
22:19)."
     
.    Now consider some others who were condemned.  How about the
sinner of the sinners, Satan.  He was perfect.  He sure wasn't lost
because God put him second in command.  Maybe you don't understand
what I am getting at.  Satan's (fallen) angels weren't lost.  Adam
(the son of God in Luke 3:38) wasn't lost.  All these decided to
disobey God.  And they are now condemned to the Lake of Fire.  (There
isn't anywhere in the Bible that states Adam was saved after he fell.)
Saul was God's anointed king (and was pleasing to Him for a while
until he started disobeying Him). 
     
.    I think the real issue is FAITH.  Everyone sins and God abhors
sin.  However God provided One Way (Jesus Christ) to deal with sin.
Confess it and God will forgive you.  We have to do it His way to the
very end (death).  In the parable of the "soils" or "sower" (Matthew
13:1-23) Jesus made it clear that some will believe for a time, but
they withered away.  "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and
walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:  But if we walk in the
light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and
the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.  If we
say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in
us.  If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.  If we say that we
have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us (1 John
1:6-10)."  To me, the Christian has to have four things: FAITH (in
Jesus' redeemer and rising from the dead), HOPE (in God's promises),
LOVE (love God and love your neighbor), and OBEDIENCE (doing God's
commandments).
      
.    Supporters of Unconditional Eternal Security know that the just
live by faith.  I am not arguing that most of them are saved.  The
preachers preach salvation just as well as opponents.  I am saying
they are overestimating the Christian, saying the real Christian
wouldn't lose faith ever to the point of him giving back God's gift of
salvation.  The supporter of Unconditional Eternal Security also has
a different view of God than the Bible tells us.  He's totally loving
and forgiving, but also is holy, just, and wrathful towards those who
to continually go against his will.  Above all God respects man's
freewill.  Man is a very fickle being.  Even if he does want to obey
with all of his heart, he still has this weak body.  (Mark 14:38),
"Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is
ready, but the flesh is weak."
   
Other scriptures include: 

Gal 5:4; I Tim 4:1; II Tim 4:10; Heb 6:4-6; II Pet 2:20-22; I John 2:15-17.

These verses indicate the person is already a believer or Christian.

Steve Luker

Sysops Note:  This file was written in response to file numbers 23 and 24
in this section.

Computers for Christ - Chicago